Norris Family Photo

Norris Family Photo c 1940 

In this photo are William, Dorothy and Marjorie Norris, with their father William Norris and mother Lucy (nee Bristow)

Dorothy Norris is my mother, Marjorie my late aunt and William my Uncle Billy.

Photo of Lucy Norris (nee Bristow)

Lucy Bristow was my maternal grandmother

Searching for Graham Norris

Sometime ago I found this post on the Plumpton Green Message Board. It was posted by Graham Norris in 2004:

"I am trying to trace my natural father and compile a family tree to hand down to my children. Unfortunately my ancestory stops with me and I have no records of my ancestors.

My father was known as "Bill" Norris (I don't know his first name). My mother was Marjorie Eleanor Payne (nee Perkins) and my half brother was Derek Anthony Payne. We all lived at 1 Riddens Lane, Plumpton Green, Sussex at least until the early 1950's. My half brother and I attended Plumpton Primary School in 1950. My mother, half brother and I moved away not long after this.

The only other information I have about my father, "Bill Norris" is that he served in the RAF in WW2. His last place of employment that I know of was in Portslade Sussex, possibly at an electrical shop in the early to mid 1950's.

Any help that I can get will be most appreciated." 

I replied to the post but received no answer, perhaps not surprising given its age. I would very much like Graham to get in touch with me as "Bill" Norris was my grandfather ...

Wartime experiences of Robert Percy Edmunds

Robert Percy Edmunds was my father. During the Second World War he was a prisoner of the Japanese. In his own words, this is his experience:

I Was There

The War Time Experiences of a Prisoner of War

By Bob Edmunds

Part One

In January 1941 to avoid conscription and the Army I volunteered, with two others, for the R.A.F. One chap was ex-Grammar school, the other a Baker, both were accepted at the interview. When I entered I was asked at once "What education have you had?" The interviewer had not heard of "Donhead High", so pressing a bell, he said "The army for you". After I objected to his hasty method of selection he gave me a spelling test, changed his mind and I joined the R.A.F!

I arrived In Blackpool in May 1941, they gave me my uniform and dressed to kill, I soon found out there was already 30,000 others in the town with the same feeling of importance, after all, the posters said "Your Country Needs You". It didn't take me long to learn a few lessons, the first night in billets I left my small change in the bedside cabinet. Next morning after breakfast it was gone! Lesson no. 1 - be careful who you trust!

During our training we had to march past Lord Derby, great coats and rolled capes were the order of the day to be worn. The said gentleman was 2 and a half hours late, can you imagine standing in thick great-coats in a heatwave on Blackpool promenade? Lesson no. 2 - there were plenty of other idiots, not I might add, "country swedes"!

Dad is on the right

After mid-June I spent a month at Cranwell learning how to operate Britain's latest secret weapon, Radar. In August it was down to real work, tracking aircraft in Devon. On returning from leave early in September I was put on Overseas draft to take the place of someone who they could not contact, so after 4 months I was supposedly trained and ready to defend some faraway place! Lesson no. 3 - experience didn't count, anyone would do to make up the numbers.

From then on I did nothing until December 8th when we sailed down the Clyde on the "Atlantic Castle" a large liner used for trade to South Africa. This was the day after the attack on Pearl Harbour by the Japanese.

We sailed north-west, the sea full of ships as far as the eye could see, a wonderful sight. After some days we turned South parallel with the American coast, then East, finding ourselves in Freetown, W. Africa on Christmas Day

Our kit suggested we were going to the Middle East, but at Durban we changed ships. This time it was the "City of Canterbury", in a filthy condition after carrying Italian prisoners. This change brought trouble and about 180 of our ranks were arrested and charged with mutiny!

City of Canterbury, the ship on which
my father sailed to war

Our next destination was Rangoon, and by this time the Japs were on the Burmese border and all was not well in Malaya. At this time the Australian Government had complained that Britain was not doing enough to defend Singapore, in fact they suggested that Churchill had already decided to give it up, so in an effort to placate the Australians we were diverted to Singapore.

Every morning at around 10 a.m. the sun would be in line with the entrance to the harbour and it was a good shield for the Japanese aircraft who came every day at that time to bomb anything and everything. There was in our convey three ships with about 4,000 men, the cruiser "Exeter", light cruiser "Emerald" and one other naval ship to protect us. Needless to say we arrived off Singapore about 10 a.m., and out of the sun came the Japs. Every ship had casualties, the "Empress of Asia" sank, but around 2,000 were rescued. When all was quiet the Harbour Master came out to meet us, saying "Who sent you here?" - not his exact words! - "we have too many to feed and water already".

We unloaded from the holds a large gun base, badly needed. eveything the Services required was piled high on the docks, next day the Japs destroyed it all. the gun base was too heavy to be lifted as the dock workers were on strike at the time - what a waste!

From it all I gathered that the left hand of those in control didn't know what the right hand was doing. The party had gone on too long, the good life had ended, and when they opened their eyes they found the jungle planned to be their defense had helped the Japanese, who were at the gates across the Causeway ...

Empress of Asia sinking after being attacked by
Japanese dive bombers on 5th February 1942

Part Two

It was the 5th February 1942 that I found myself in Keppel Harbour, Singapore with 4,000 or more other servicemen who, as we surveyed the chaos all around, knew at once our position was far from good, in fact, hopeless. I had always understood Singapore was a fortress able to withstand any attack. How the picture had changed, the British Forces had withdrawn from the mainland some six days before, so with the water supply in enemy hands and the oil tanks ablaze, all hope had gone and it showed on the faces of everyone we met on the docks.

After we had unloaded the ship we did an about-turn and sailed back down the Straits, toward what we all hoped would be Australia. We had been joined by about 200 Australian soldiers who could see the danger of the Japanese advance and wanted to return to defend their homeland. We eventually arrived in the port of Batavaria (now Jakarta) in Java, then a Dutch colony. I had heard of it in my school days, rich in oil, coffee, rubber, sugar, tea, quinine, to name just a few of its exports; it had a variation in climate, was near the Equator - all this I remembered, but I was soon to learn much more over the next four weeks.

When we pulled alongside the dock our officer called us together, a Radar draft of about 40 men. He said "You are now in Java and quite safe from attack for some time to come". We came ashore with our kit, lined on the dock ready to march off. Within minutes we were diving for cover from Japanese aircraft! - so much for our officer's observations.

We spent some time moving around Java, the scenery I shall always remember. Eventually twelve of us were sent to Sitoebondoe, where we were joined by three Aussies, (two radar meachanics and an Officer). We were to set up an American mobile unit advised by two Americans, who then left in a hurry, hoping to get away from Java aboard a submarine. On starting operations we found the barrel of fuel given to us by the Dutch Army contained tar as well as diesel fuel so we were u/s. The equipment was cleared, more fuel obtained, and at last we had information to pass on to H.Q. We failed to get an answer and after many attempts a Dutchman came on the line and said everyone had gone, General Wavell had left some days earlier, and it was now every man for himself. 

Our first job was to destroy our equipment and prepare to join the local army group and move to the mountains to "fight in the hills". As yet we had not seen a single rifle, we were given an old Buick tourer, a van with solid tyres, and another old car. We arrived at what was to be our camp in the mountains, a coffee plantation, my bed being on the griddle that selected the beans. Next day, as it was necessary to keep fit, we were ordered on a route march, (we were now under Dutch command). We led the march, still with no weapons, and as we could see a road above us we decided we were sitting targets. When we returned we heard all Allied troops had surrendered and that the Japanese had taken the island. 

After some discussion twelve of us told the officers we were going to make for the coast, we were joined by two Dutchmen and given a lorry with some supplies, the old Buick and 20,000 guilders. We also had two machine-guns and set off for the coast, an exciting journey speeding through the night, not knowing where the enemy was now!

On arriving at a coastal town we found an 18-foot sailing boat, we purchased an outboard motor and a small boat to hold our supplies; we hoped to reach Australia across the Timor Sea. At this point we were told that an Australian business man had left his yacht at a port some 200 miles down the coast, in sight of Bali, so once more we moved on. We came to Banjawangi in the early morning and discovered a Cable and Wireless booster station, where the Manager made us very welcome.We found the boat, the diesel engine needed some attention. Meanwhile the Japanese had made all Allied Commanding Officers responsible - on their lives - for handing over all troops in their area, so an armed guard was placed to stop us leaving. It was now the middle of March, we had been joined by two soldiers, and after talking over the situation it was decided eight should return to the the sailing boat, the maximum we thought it would take. Two friends and I said we would stay, the others cast lots who should go, they left with the motor transport at once ...

Part Three

After the eight men had left us to go back to the sailing boat our host at the Cable & Wireless station, knowing that time was short, had called on two coffee planters to come and advise us. They were willing to help us, but as the natives would have sold us out for the smallest reward, we thought it unfair to also put them in danger.

Our next move was to the quayside where we offered a Javanese fisherman 1000 guilders to take us to Australia. As this was a fortune to him he found it hard to say "No" - but in the end that was his answer, so we were back to "square 1".

The next morning we were awakened by excitement and commotion outside, and quite early we were called upon to parade by the local Dutch officer in charge. We soon found that the Japanese had arrived when they took charge and lined us up with our backs to the wall in front of an armed guard. We all thought our time was up, but after standing for a couple of hours we were put in the back of a lorry, joining a convoy on our way through the mountains to a prison camp. It was late on the second day when we arrived at Malang, a large town in Central Java, where we parked in a large open area with army vehicles as far as the eye could see, a sad sight. The Japanese troops had used bicycles for transport when they landed and moved quickly under all conditions. Our prison camp was in an Army barracks surrounded by mountains, some volcanic, and although near the Equator, the heat of the day was similar to a  hot June day, due to the height above sea level.

At first things went along quite quietly  but gradually they "turned the screw" and made it difficult for us. First the British were interrogated, I was accompanied by the Dutch C.O. When the Jap. Officer said "if you don't tell me the truth I will shoot you", the C.O. said, "take no notice of the silly so-and-so, tell him anything that comes into your head". We were then given a form to fill in, mostly questions, one being "what would you like to do now?" We all answered "Go home". One morning early we had to parade on the football ground for an inspection by a Japanese General. The word went around that they were taking our clothes away, leaving only what we stood in, so we paraded dressed in two each of whatever we possessed. The General was late, the sun was very hot and I think we lost pounds that day! At last he arrived, "knee-high to a duck, the seat of his trousers wiped out his foot marks, his sword tickled his armpit, and the peak of his cap rested on his nose." How ever could they have come so far so fast - it didn't do a lot for our morale.

On the first morning of working parades while the Jap. sergeant was using his bead-board to count, my friend and I slipped away from the end of the row and back into camp. It meant we spent the day avoiding patrols, it was never worth it, so after that we would have to use other methods to avoid helping with the war effort.

As time passed we were joined by other British soldiers as they left the local hospital. Before the Japs. landed a troop train carrying the 77th A.A. Reg. (mostly Territorials from S. Wales) was in a collision with a train pulling oil tanks on a single track, resulting in at least 50 killed and many injured, the latter now gradually increasing our numbers.

During the next months we lived o a knife edge, four Dutchmen were executed, first having to dig their own graves, the penalty for escaping. We had to patrol inside the wire fence to prevent others from getting away. Many prisoners were punished by the "Dripping Tap", - shut in a cell with nothing to drink, but in earshot of a dripping water-tap; and there were many other similar tortures.

At the beginning of 1943 we were moved to Batavia, a camp occupied by all British Army and Air Force, as well as Royal Naval survivors from the Battle of the Java Sea. It was good to be with our own again, as here we could hold church services, around an altar built by our troops. At this time the Jap. C.O. was a Christian, - he soon moved on, probably because of his religion. 

By this time we were getting to know what to expect from our captors, but little did we know why we had been brought here and what they had in store for us. The road ahead was that which no other British troops had trod before ...

To Be Continued

Charles Bristow 1894 - 1917 A.I.F.

Charles Bristow was the first cousin of my grandmother, Lucy Bristow. In other words Lucy and Charles had the same grandparents, namely James and Mary (nee Whitington) Bristow. Lucy was the daughter of their son Frederick (b. 1859) and Charles was the son of their boy Charles (b. 1863).

Charles appears in the 1901 Census where he is found living with his parents, Charles and Agnes and his sisters Agnes and Elizabeth at Park Barns, Ditchling. Charles is 7 years old and his place of birth is given as Chailey.

We know from his subsequent military records that Charles attended the National School, Chailey.

In the 1911 Census Charles is still living with his parents but now at Rose Cottage, South Street, Chailey. Charles' sisters have left the family home but also in the house is a boarder, Charles Ford. Charles Bristow is 17 and a General Labourer.

Sometime around 1913, Charles emigrated to Australia. According to my mum, Lucy Bristow's daughter, this was to become a sheep farmer. Whatever his intention, Charles was not long in Australia before he joined the army, enlisting with the 3rd Light Horse Brigade at Melbourne on 20th October 1914. In his military papers, Charles is described as being five feet, six and three quarter inches tall, ten stone, ten pounds in weight and with brown hair, hazel eyes and a medium complexion. Nothing is known of his sevice at this time except that he remained in Australia and was admonished for two minor transgressions. One was being late for stable piquet and the other was neglect of harness.

Charles remained in the army until 14th February 1915 when he was discharged as medically unfit. In March 1915, however, Charles rejoined the army, this time being posted to D Company of the 24th Infantry Battalion, 6th Infantry Brigade, Australian Imperial Force. His attestation papers show that his previous military service had apparently suited him. He is noted as being eleven stone in weight and, as well as his 107 days with the 3rd Light Horse Brigade,service with the Royal Garrison Artillery in England is also noted.

In May 1915 Charles boarded the Euripides at Melbourne and set sail for the Mediterranean. He disembarked first in Egypt and then preceded in August to Gallipoli. It was whilst he was serving at Gallipoli (with 6th Infantry Brigade) that Charles received shell wounds to the head. This was on 29th November 1915.

Looking at various records, it would appear that 24th Battalion was stationed in the vicinity of Lone Pine - the scene of some of the most intense fighting of the Gallipoli campaign.  In his diary, Thomas Reginald Part, another member of the Battalion wrote:

 "Nov.29 Turks opened fire using every available gun and broomstick bomb they possessed. All trains were closed on Lone Pine. The parapets of 1st firing line were blown down ... and outside communication was cut off. Clearing parties were buried time after time. Legs arms and bodies vied with each other in their velocity through the air. How those "Howitzer"s did hum, they never left anything where they fell. 

30. Casualty returns of yesterdays bombardment 350 (all ranks) many are still buried".

Charles was taken to St Elmo Hospital on the island of Malta. He travelled on the ship HS Karapora and disembarked on December 4th.

Troops boarding Euripides at  Melbourne in May 1915

Transport ship Euripides leaving Melbourne, May 1915

Hospital Ship Karapora

On 7th January 1916, The East Sussex News published an article about Charles:

ONE OF THE LUCK ONES

Private Bristow of the 6th Infantry Brigade, Australian Contingent, whose mother lives at Chailey, is in hospital at Malta, suffering from a shell wound to the head received at the Dardanelles. In a letter to his mother he said: "I am one of the lucky ones to get away alive as there was a terrible bombardment of the Turks. For nearly three hours I was buried and for two hours under the earth I was unconscious. I never want to go through such an experience again. Death is facing you the whole time. You could never imagine what it is like to have several feet of earth over you and at the same time be struggling for breath. It was the biggest bombardment we had ever seen or heard, and ever want to see again. I am undergoing an operation in the morning but you must cheer up for I will soon be well again. We are certainly treated very well here".

Charles received treatment for his wound, shock and a problem with his vision (Amblyopia Diplopa) He was in hospital in Malta until 23rd March 1916. It then appears that he was due to go back to Australia but only got as far as Egypt where, between March and July 1916 he was in and out of various hospitals and convalescent homes, including those in Alexandria, Abbassia, Heliopolis and Tel-el-Kabir. The causes of his admissions is noted as a re-occurrence of his scalp wound and Epididymitis.

On 20th April 1916, Charles was transferred to the 57th Infantry Battalion, Australian Imperial Force. He was afterward granted one month's furlough to England and set sail from Alexandria on July 29th, arriving at Southampton on August 9th 1916. Charles remained in England until 15th March 1917. Part of the time he was on leave - and presumably spent a good part of that time in Chailey - but on 28th September he is found at Perham Down Command Depot, where he is classified B.1.A, and later, in December, he spends 63 days in hospital at Bulford.

Charles surviving medical history is dated February 1917. It records that he has "Giddiness when walking - headaches - pain eyes". It also states "Extensive scar over aft paristal with apparent loss of bone. Operation for removal of shrapnel"

Sailing from Folkestone on 15th March, Charles arrived at Etaples in France the next day. On 21st March, Charles wrote his last will and ttestament in his pay book in which he left his estate to his father. On 6th April he rejoined the 57th Infantry Battalion in the field and then appears to have stayed out of hospital for the next five months. On 8th June 1917, Charles wrote another will which was lodged with the Estates Branch, Admin HQ AIF, again leaving everything to his father.

On 27th September 1917, near Ypres, Charles Bristow was killed. He is buried at Poelcapelle British Cemetery. Later, the authorities returned to his father a disc (I presume an identity dic), wallet, photos, cards and two German shoulder straps. On 21st September 1922 they also sent Charles Bristow his son's memorial plaque and scroll.

Click here to view the Australian army records of Charles Bristow

Click here to see the embarkation roll for 24th Battalion, D Company AIF

Click here for an eyewitness account of soldiers' experiences in Maltese hospitals in 1915

Click here to see Charles Bristow on the Australian War Memorial Roll of Honour

Click here to view record for Charles Bristow at the Commonweath War Graves Commission

Sidney Bristow 1895 - 1916

Sidney Bristow was the first cousin of my grandmother, Lucy Bristow. In other words, Lucy and Sidney had the same grandparents, namely James and Mary (nee Whitington) Bristow. Lucy was the daughter of their son Frederick (b. 1859) and Sidney was the son of their boy William (b.1850).

Sidney - full name Sidney George Augustus Bristow - was born in 1895.

In the 1911 census Sidney is living with his parents at Grantham Cottages, North Common, Chailey. His occupation is given as "blacksmith's sticker", Sidney is 16 years old and single.

During the First World War, Sidney joined the Royal Navy. He enlisted on 12th May 1915 for the full duration of the war; this was two weeks before his twentieth birthday. His number was M132255. according to his naval records, Sidney was five feet, five and a half inches tall; he had brown hair, brown eyes and a fair complexion. It is noted that he had a scar on his right leg caused by the removal of a varicose vein. His rating was Blacksmith's Mate.

Sidney began his naval career stationed at Portsmouth. After training, on 13th November 1915, he joined HMS Invincible.

HMS Invincible

During Sidney's service on board Invincible the ship formed part of the Third Battlecruiser Squadron of the Grand Fleet. The squadron was commanded by Rear Admiral H.L.A Hood who made Invincible his flagship.In April 1916 the Third and First Battlecruiser Squadrons made a sortie in response to the German bombardment of Yarmouth and Lowestoft. The squadrons failed to find the German ships, but on the way back the Invincible was rammed by the patrol yacht Goissa. Goissa's bow was embedded in Invincible's side which partially stoved-in. As a result of the damage Invincible made her way at reduced speed to Rosyth for repairs.

At the end of May 1916 the entire Grand Fleet was in the North Sea anticipating a breakout from its home ports by the German High Seas Fleet. It was whilst engaged in the operations that followed that the Invincible was fatally hit in an exchange of gunfire with German forces. It is is believed that a shell penetrated the front of a turret which blew off the roof and detonated the midship magazines. The explosions that followed blew Invincible in half. There were 1026 officers and men aboard the vessel. Only six survived. Sidney's body was never found.

HMS Invincible exploding after being hit by enemy fire

Invincible broke in two

After the war the wreakage was located at 57-02-40 North Latitude, 06-17-15 East Longitude, 180 feet (55 metres) down. The pieces of the ship rest on a sandy bottom near each other; the stern right-side up and the bow upside down.

Click here to see Sidney's details at the Commonwealth War Graves Commission

Click here for a full list of the men who died on HMS Invincible

Click here to see video of the wreck of HMS Invincible

Click here to find out more about the Battle of Jutland

Click here for more about HMS Invincible

Mary Ann Bristow b. 1853

Mary Ann Bristow was born in 1853. She was the daughter of James and Mary (nee Whitington) Bristow. She was the aunt of my grandmother, Lucy Bristow, and so my Great Grandaunt.

In the third quarter of 1873 Mary Ann Bristow married John Avery, a farm labourer.

In 1881 we find Mary Ann and John living at  ? Green Cottage, Chailey. John is 38 years old and his wife is ten years younger. The children listed are:

John Avery - aged 6 years, b. 1875 Chailey
Henry Avery - aged 4 years, b. 1877 Chailey
Mary A. Avery -aged  2  years, b.1879 Chailey

In the 1891 Census we find Mary Ann and John living at Waspbourne Cottage, Freshfield Road, Chailey. John is now 16 years old and employed as a Cowman; Henry is a butcher's apprentice and 14 years old; Mary is now aged 12. In addition, there are other children:

Ellen Avery - aged 9, b. 1882 Chailey
Emily Avery - aged 7, b 1884 Chailey
Charles Avery - aged 4, b.1887 Chailey
Thomas Avery - aged 2, b 1889 Chailey

In the last quarter of 1891, John Avery died. He was 49 years old. Mary Ann was left a widow with a large family to support and care for.

In the third quarter of 1896 Mary Ann remarried. Her new husband was Charles Knight.

In the 1901 Census we find Mary Ann living with her husband Charles at Oaklands Cottage Chailey. Some of the children from Mary Ann's first marriage are there: Charles is now 14 and a carter boy, Harry is 24 and a dairyman, and Thomas is 12 years old. It would also appear that a child had been born to Mary Ann and Charles: William Knight is just three years old.

Also in the home in 1901 is Charles Knight's father in law, he is sometimes identified as "James Bridon" but examining the original document and comparing it also with the 1911 return we see, in fact, that it is James Bristow, Mary Ann's father.

In 1911 we find that the family has moved to Rock Cottage, Scaynes Hill, Near Hayward Heath. Her husband is 62, and Mary Ann is 58 years old. Their son William is now 13 years and "going to school". Harry Avery is aged 33, single and a stationary engine Driver, Charles is also single, 24 years and a "waggoner on farm"; Thomas is 22, single, a "farm labourer"

Norris Family

My grandfather was William Herbert Norris. I knew from my mother that he was born around 1900 and that he came from Southwark, London. She had also mentioned the names of some of his siblings so It should have been easy to have located him in the 1911 census. Strangely, however, he and his family remained elusive .... until I attempted alternative spellings of the name"Norris" ...

William Norris

(my grandfather)

In the 1911 census the family is found with the surname "Norriss" and my grandfather appears as "William" rather than "William Herbert". Here I discover that my grandfather is living at 71 Cook Road, St Mary Newington. He is 11 years old. 

Herbert George Norris

(my great grandfather)

William's father is given as Herbert George Norriss a house decorator from Frome, Somerset (aged 38 years). Herbert's wife is Elizabeth Norriss, from Ipswich (aged 32). In addition to my grandfather, the children living there are:

Lily Norriss - aged 16, a "General Servant" (born 1895, Lambeth, London)
George Norriss - aged 14, "Office Boy" (born 1897, Bermondsey, London)
Albert Norris - aged 8, (born 1903, Lambeth, London)
Cecil Norris - aged 5, (born 1906, Handsworth)
Gladdis Norris - aged 4 (born 1907, Tooteing (sic) Surrey)
Leonard Norriss - aged 9 months, (Tooteing (sic) Surrey)

From the variety of places where the children were born, it would seem likely that the family moved around a bit. Not surprising then to find the family (with their surname now spelt correctly) at a different address in the 1901 census. Now the family are living at 32 Marshall Street, Southwark (in the ecclesiastical parish of St Jude / civil parish of St George the Martyr). From the 1901 Census we find that the full name of George Norris is "George Albert John Norris" that "Lily Norris" is "Eliza Lillian Norris" and that my grandfather's place of birth was "Southwark Park Road, Bermondsey". This time, my great grandfather, Herbert George Norris is described as a "Journeyman Handy Man"

Going back still further, to the 1891 Census, Herbert Norris (my great grandfather) is living at yet another address, namely 54, Bonnington Square, Lambeth. Here Herbert is 19 years old with his occupation listed as "Machine Painter" and his place of birth as "Charlton" in Somerset (Charlton being near Frome, between Frome and Radstock). Also in the house are  ...

Jacob Norris

(my great, great grandfather)

1) Herbert's father, Jacob Norris (my great, great grandfather). 
We are told his occupation, "Mantelman Groom"; his age, 43 years; and his estimated date of birth, 1848.

2) Jacob's wife, Eliza Norris.
Her estimated date of birth is given as 1849 and her age 42 years; place of birth is "Charlton", Somerset.

Besides Herbert, there are several other children living in the house ...

Frederick Norris - aged 17, a "General Labourer" (born 1874, Charlton, Somerset)
Albert Norris - aged 16, a "Carmans Assistant" (born 1875, Charlton, Somerset)
Edith Norris - aged 11, (born 1880, Notting Hill)
Arthur Norris - aged 8, (born 1883, Notting Hill)
Harry Norris - aged 6, (born 1885, Notting Hill)

These are all given as the children of Jacob Norris.

Staying with my great great grandfather, in the 1881 census, we find that Jacob Norris is living as a lodger at 2, Lawn Lane, Lambeth. His occupation is given as "Labourer".  Going back still further, to 1871, Jacob is shown living alone at the Toll Gate, Buckland Dinham, Frome. His age is 23 and he is living alone.

Which brings us to 1861 when Jacob is 13 years old ...

John Norris

(my great, great, great grandfather)

The 1861 census tells us that Jacob's father (and my great, great, great grandfather) was John Norris, then a 42 year old "Agricultural Labourer". His place of birth is given as Road, Somerset and his estimated year of birth as 1819. In 1861 he is living at Port, Laverton, near Frome. Also in the house are his wife Ann (b.1820, Broughton, Wiltshire), Jacob and Jacob's brother James who is aged 17. (The occupation of both Jacob and James is given as that of "Agricultural Labourer")

The 1851 Census reveals more about the family. John Norris is living at Road Bridge, Frome. Jacob Norris is there, aged 2, and so is James aged 7. In addition there are other siblings: Sarah aged 11, George aged 9 and Mary aged 4. With the exception of George all were born at Road. George Norris, is said to have been born at "North Bradley, Southwick". 

At this point, perhaps I should sound a warning - what follows is a little speculative ... it is me trying to make senses of the documents that I currently have ... but ...

Comparing the 1861 and 1851 census suggests that sometime between these dates there may have been a crisis in the Norris household. The 1851 Census gives John's wife as "Mary Norris" (b. 1815 Wingfield). This is different to 1861 where it has "Ann Norris" (b. 1820, Broughton). The most likely explanation is that between 1851 and 1861 John's wife Mary died and that he afterward remarried. Looking at the death records, I find that in Frome in 1852 two people named Mary Ann Norris died. One in the 2nd quarter of that year and the other in the third. Their respective ages are not given but it is possible that one refers to John's wife and the other perhaps to their child Mary. (Interestingly the 1841 census has John living with "Mary Ann Norris". The nature of the relationship is not stated but at the moment I assume they are married (not brother-sister) and that she is the same person as the Mary Norris of 1851). That this might indeed be what happened  is suggested by the fact that I can find no trace of John's daughter Mary after the 1851 Census and also by the fact that in the fourth quarter of 1852 records indicate that a "John Norris" may have married "Ann Burge" in Frome, Somerset. All this needs further looking at and it may be that I have got it completely wrong. However, It is very easy to imagine a scenario where, with at least four children to support, John could not long manage without a wife and that he therefore remarried soon after their mother died!

PS ... since this post I have made contact with a living relative. Irene Norris is a descendant of John Norris' brother Thomas. She has kindly offered to look into her own records concerning the conundrum detailed above, but in the meantime I have been provided with the following information ...

James Norris

(my great, great, great, great grandfather)

The father of John Norris was James Norris, who was married to Ann (maiden name unknown). Apparently they had eight children,all registered at Rode in Somerset. The children were:

Elizabeth - born 1810

James - born 1813

Ann - born 1815

Thomas - born 1817 (my correspondent's great, great grandfather)

John - born 1819 (my great, great, great grandfather)

William - born 1821

Caroline - born 1824

Ann - born 1825

Irene tells me that Thomas Norris married Maria Coleman from North Bradley and that they had six children. She tells me that they went to Van Dieman's Land in July 1825. They sailed on the Northumberland in 1854 and went to Tasmania at the request of Maria's convict father, James Coleman. Irene also tells me that Thomas' brother James also went to Australia, going out to New South Wales and residing in Albury.

Click here to read about James Coleman and the Norris family in Australia

The picture below is that of the Northumberland encountering an iceberg on an earlier voyage, from Australia to London (from the Illustrated London News)

Monckton House

In the 1881 Census my Great Grand Mother, Harriet Ann Edmunds, is identified as being a Lady's Maid at Monckton House, one of three servants at the home of private banker and magistrate Wiiliam Grant and family.

Moncton House was built in 1850 for James Biden, A Gosport Brewer. When James died his widow sold the house to Captain George Grant R.N and it remained in the Grant family until the early years of the twentieth century.

In 1941 Monckton House was requisitioned and used as a hostel for WRNS from HMS Dolphin.

Today, Monckton House, in its 12 acres of grounds, is a Grade II listed building and used as a Royal Naval Medical School and Physiological Laboratory

Click here for where to find Monckton House

Harriet Ann Edmunds

Harriet Ann Edmunds was born in 1853. Her parents were John & Jane Edmunds and they had her baptised in Boscombe parish church on the fifteenth of May 1853. Harriet married William Nicklen in 1882. She died in the first quarter of 1944, aged 90 years.

Who was Harriet Ann Edmunds?

Harriet was my Great Grand Mother (via my father, Robert Percy Edmunds and his father / Harriet's son, Herbert William Edmunds)

What work did she do?

Harriet worked in domestic service.

What children did she have?

Herbert William Edmunds
Born 1880 Boscombe, Wiltshire
Baptised twenty fifth April 1880 at Boscombe Parish Church (parish records have the note "base born").

Alice May Nicklen 
Born 1883 

William Nicklen 
Born 1886

Henry Nicklen
Born 1888

Edward Nicklen
Born 1890

Charles Edgar Nicklen
Born 1893

Anna Maria Nicklen
Born 1898

Where did Harriet live?

Harriet grew up in Boscombe, Wiltshire. Later, after her marriage she lived in Fordingbridge, Hants.

What else do we know about Harriet?

In the 1871 Census, when she was 17 years, she is a servant at the Rectory in the parish of Boscombe, in the district of Amesbury, Winterbourne. (The Head of the House was Thomas Taylor who was then 70 and from Lancashire). This was 9 years before my grand father, Herbert William Edmunds, was born. 

In the 1881 Census, now aged 27, Harriet is one of three servants, a Lady's Maid, at Monckton House, Alverstoke, Hants, the home of private banker and magistrate William Grant and family. (There is no mention of her young son Herbert). 

In 1882, on the 29th of May, Harriet (aged 29) married William Nicklen (aged 37) in Boscombe, Amesbury, Wilts. (The parish record gives Harriet's father as John Edmunds & William's as James Nicklen - both labourers). The witnesses were Arthur Edmunds, Fanny Nicklen, Edith Muspratt and William Edmunds. The presiding priest was T Taylor).

In the 1891 census Harriet & William with Herbert and children of their marriage were living in Upper Street, Fordingbridge, Hants. William is described as a "General Labourer". 

In the 1911 census the couple are still living in Upper Street with two of their children, but not Herbert Edmunds. 

Harriet Nicken (nee Edmunds)

Frederick & Elizabeth Bristow

Frederick Bristow was born in 1859, Elizabeth (nee ???) in 1860.

Who were Frederick & Elizabeth?

Frederick & Elizabeth were my Great Grand Parents (via my mum's mother, Lucy Bristow).

Frederick & Elizabeth Bristow

What children did Frederick & Elizabeth have?

Elizabeth Bristow 
Born 1880 Chailey

In 1901 Elizabeth was a Kitchen Maid for Edith Dumbill, a teacher, at Seymour Lodge, 49 North Street, Ditchling, West Sussex.

Katherine Bristow
Born 1882 Chailey

Ellen Bristow 
Born 1884 Plumpton

William Bristow 
Born 1887 Chailey

In 1911 William was a Cowman, living at St Helena Cottage, Plumpton with his wife  Emma Sarah Bristow who was born in 1882 at Brighton, Sussex.

Albert Bristow 
Born 1890 Chailey

In 1911 was a Cow Man

Richard Bristow 
Born 1893 Chailey

In 1911, Richard was a Carter Lad

Henry Bristow 
Born 1895 Chailey

In 1911 Henry was a Carter Boy

Lucy Bristow 
Born 1899 Chailey

Lucy was my mum's mother and so my grand mother. Lucy married William Herbert Norris and had three children: Marjorie, Dorothy and William (Billy).

Where did Frederick & Elizabeth live?

In 1911 they lived at Old Farm, Chailey with Albert, Richard, Henry & Lucy; and John Funnel (a boarder).
In 1901 they lived at The Hole, Chailey with Albert, Richard, William, Henry & Lucy
In 1891 they lived at 2 North Common, Chailey with Elizabeth, Katharine, Ellen, William & Albert

James & Mary Ann Bristow

James Bristow was born in 1826, Mary Ann (nee Whitington) in 1830.

Who were James & Mary?

James & Mary were my Great Great Grand Parents (via my mum's mother, Lucy Bristow and Lucy's father, Frederick Bristow).

What children did James & Mary have?

William Bristow
Born 1850 Sussex

Mary Ann Bristow 
Born 1853 Sussex

Ellen Bristow 
Born 1855 Sussex

Frederick Bristow 
Born 1859 Sussex

Frederick was the father of Lucy Bristow and my Great Grand Father

Elizabeth Jane Bristow 
Born 1860 Sussex

Charles Bristow 
Born 1863 Sussex

Henry Bristow 
Born 1864 Sussex

Where did James & Mary live?

In 1871 they lived at The Hole, Chailey with William, Mary Ann, Frederick, Elizabeth Jane, Charles & Henry.
In 1841 James, then aged 15, lived at Townings, Chailey with Elizabeth Knight aged 70, Ann Elliot aged 18, Edward Knight aged 6, Mary Chatfield aged 15, William Gatland aged 28 and Martin Jenner aged 19.

What else do we know about James & Ann?

In 1891 James is a patient in hospital at The Green, Newick.

In 1911 James, 85 years old and a widower, is living with his daughter Mary Ann and her husband Charles Knight and family. Their home is given as Rock Cottage, Scaynes Hill, Hayward Heath.

John & Jane Rebecca Edmunds

John Edmunds was born in 1813 and died in 1895, Jane Rebecca (nee Marshall) was born in 1825 and died in 1908.

Who were John & Jane Rebecca?

John & Jane were my Great Great Grand Parents (via my father Robert Percy Edmunds and his grandmother Harriet Ann Edmunds).
John was born in Boscombe, Wiltshire to John and Miriam Edmunds. 
Jane was born in Chilhampton, Wiltshire.
They married in 1847. The marriage was registered in Amesbury but does not appear in the Boscombe parish records

What work did they do?

John was an agricultural labourer throughout his life.

What children did John & Jane Rebecca have?

Mary Jane Edmunds
Born 1849 Boscombe, Wiltshire

Harriet Ann Edmunds 
Born 1853 Boscombe, Wiltshire

Harriet was my Great Grandmother (via my father Robert Percy Edmunds and his father Herbert William Edmunds).

Arthur Edmunds 
Born 1857 Boscombe, Wiltshire

William John Edmunds 
Born 1863 Boscombe, Wiltshire

Edward Ernest Edmunds
Born 1871 Boscombe, Wiltshire

Where did John & Jane Rebecca live?

In 1841 John, then aged 27, is recorded as living in Boscombe with George Saunders (aged 61) and Richard Yeats (aged 19)
In 1851 John and Jane lived at Edmunds Cottage, Boscombe with Mary Jane and John's mother Miriam, then aged 74. Also visiting on the occasion of the census were two children Thomas and Louisa Harris; Thomas is aged 12 (born in Pitton), and Louisa 5 (born in Winterbourne).
In 1871 they were still living in Boscombe, along with their children Arthur and William John
In 1881 they are still living in Boscombe, along with their children Arthur, William and Edward
In 1891, John and Jane continue to reside in Boscombe, along with their children William and Edward
In 1901 Jane is listed as a widow, aged 76, living in Boscombe with her son Ernest (aged 29, single and a farm labourer).

What else do we know about John and Jane?

John was aged 81 when he died. He was buried in Boscombe on July 9th 1895
Jane was buried in Boscombe on 8th December 1908. She was 84 years when she died.