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| Herbert Edmunds |
This is my paternal Grandfather Herbert Edmunds, the son of Harriet Edmunds. Herbert was born in 1880, in Boscombe, Wiltshire.
Thursday, 21 February 2013
A Photo of my Grandfather Herbert Edmunds
This is my paternal Grandfather Herbert Edmunds, the son of Harriet Edmunds. Herbert was born in 1880, in Boscombe, Wiltshire.
A Photo of Harriet Edmunds
It's an ill wind that blows no good ... our house needs some work done on the roof, I have to sort out the loft in preparation ... What do I find? A large collection of my late father's photographs, including this picture of my Great Grandmother Harriet Edmunds! Looking at this picture, the word that comes to mind is ... kindly ...
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| Harriet Edmunds |
Saturday, 16 February 2013
Military Career of William Arthur Norris (b 1899)
I have previously written of another William Arthur Norris and his military career; that was the son of Jacob Norris (my Great Great Grandfather) who was quickly discharged after enlisting in the Lancers on the grounds that he was unlikely to make a capable soldier. The William Arthur Norris that I write about here is the grandson of Jacob Norris, born to his son Frederick J Norris c 1899. He is therefore the cousin of my grandfather William Herbert Norris and of the same age.
William Arthur Norris (b 1899) joined the army on the 5th of May 1915, signing up for the duration of the war with the 17th Battalion Kings Royal Rifles. He is given the Regimental No C3097. William Arthur's Service Record tells us that his next of kin is Frederick John Norris and that the family home is 163 Wolsely Buildings, Jacob Street, Bermondsey. His occupation is given as that of a Packer at a Cake Bakery. William Arthur's military career, however, did not last very long. He was posted on 5th May 1915 but discharged on 9th August of the same year because he was underage. William Arthur had falsely claimed to be 19 years and 90 days; in fact he was only about 16.
But this is not the end of the story ... because on 2nd October 1915 - and still underage - William Arthur Norris joined the 12th Battalion (Bermondsey) of the East Surrey Regiment. He was given the No 14150. The record appears damaged but this information about William Arthur Norris can be gleaned:
Height - 6 feet
Chest when fully expanded - 37 inches
Range of expansion - 2 inches
Weight - 134 pounds
Complexion - fresh
Eyes - blue
Hair - brown
His occupation is now given as Carman
Distinguishing marks are mentioned: a mole on the left upper lip and a scar on left side of the neck and the front of the left ear (suggesting perhaps a wound from a knife?)
The address that is given for his father is the same as he gave at his earlier enlistment.
William Arthur Norris was posted on 2nd October 1915. By 12th November, however, he had been struck off as a deserter! The only event mentioned on his service record is for the offence of overstaying his pass by seven days for which he was confined to barracks for fourteen days and forfeited seven days pay.
It is difficult to avoid the conclusion that William Arthur Norris was something of a handful; even so his father appears concerned for his welfare. He writes to his son's Commanding Officer ...
William Arthur Norris (b 1899) joined the army on the 5th of May 1915, signing up for the duration of the war with the 17th Battalion Kings Royal Rifles. He is given the Regimental No C3097. William Arthur's Service Record tells us that his next of kin is Frederick John Norris and that the family home is 163 Wolsely Buildings, Jacob Street, Bermondsey. His occupation is given as that of a Packer at a Cake Bakery. William Arthur's military career, however, did not last very long. He was posted on 5th May 1915 but discharged on 9th August of the same year because he was underage. William Arthur had falsely claimed to be 19 years and 90 days; in fact he was only about 16.
But this is not the end of the story ... because on 2nd October 1915 - and still underage - William Arthur Norris joined the 12th Battalion (Bermondsey) of the East Surrey Regiment. He was given the No 14150. The record appears damaged but this information about William Arthur Norris can be gleaned:
Height - 6 feet
Chest when fully expanded - 37 inches
Range of expansion - 2 inches
Weight - 134 pounds
Complexion - fresh
Eyes - blue
Hair - brown
His occupation is now given as Carman
Distinguishing marks are mentioned: a mole on the left upper lip and a scar on left side of the neck and the front of the left ear (suggesting perhaps a wound from a knife?)
The address that is given for his father is the same as he gave at his earlier enlistment.
William Arthur Norris was posted on 2nd October 1915. By 12th November, however, he had been struck off as a deserter! The only event mentioned on his service record is for the offence of overstaying his pass by seven days for which he was confined to barracks for fourteen days and forfeited seven days pay.
It is difficult to avoid the conclusion that William Arthur Norris was something of a handful; even so his father appears concerned for his welfare. He writes to his son's Commanding Officer ...
Wednesday, 13 February 2013
Annie Norris
Annie Norris was the youngest child of Jacob Norris (my Great Great Grandfather).
She was born on 26th April 1869 in Charlton Somerset.
As we have shown elsewhere here, Annie's family moved to London sometime around 1879 - 1881 after her father went to prison for an assault on a woman in Frome. We now know they were in London by the Summer of 1880 because ...
On the 16th August 1880 Annie was admitted to St Clement's Road School in Kensington and Chelsea. Her admission No is 20, and the family address given as 98, Latimer Road. Her previous school appears to have been St James. Annie is eleven years old.
On 6th October 1889 Annie married Sydney Alfred Broome. This was at the Parish Church of St James the Great, Bethnal Green, in the borough of Tower Hamlets. Her father is given as Jacob Norris. The Groom's father is Harry Broome. Both Annie and Sydney are said to be aged 19 years and resident in Bethnal Green. The Groom's occupation is given as Painter; Jacob's occupation is given as Horse Keeper. The two witnesses are Frederick ? & Jane Harris
In the 1901 Census the couple are living in Loughborough Street in the Kennington Division of Lambeth. Annie is 31 years old and her place of birth is recorded as Somerset Charlton. Sidney is said to be 29 and a Builder's Labour. (There is a slight inconsistency here with the ages given on the marriage certificate). Also in the home is Annie and Sidney's daughter Elizabeth Broome. Her place of birth is given as London Kensington or Kennington.
Elizabeth Broome was born on 16th September 1889. Observant readers will notice that this was a few weeks before Annie and Sydney were married. This, however, is consistent with their child being registered as Elizabeth Broome Norris (in the last quarter of 1889). This "irregularity" might be the reason why Elizabeth was not christened immediately.
Elizabeth Broome was christened on 22nd September 1893 at St Barnabas Lambeth. The family's address is not clear; perhaps 54 Paradise (?) Road. The father's occupation is given as Labourer.
At the age of five, on 26th April 1894 Elizabeth was admitted to Springfield School, Lambeth. (The same school that my Grandfather William Norris would later attend). Her admission No is 325.The family address is given, but is not clear, perhaps 53 Marshall Street (?). Elizabeth had previously been at the National School, Camberwell.
Annie died in the final quarter of 1910. Curiously her death is registered in Romford, Essex.
In the 1911 Census Sidney Broome is living at 1 Lowden Road, Herne Hill, London. He is 42, a widower and employed as a House Painter in the Building Industry
In 1911 Annie and Sidney's daughter, Elizabeth Broome, is visiting the Steven Household at 111 Ormside Street, Peckham, Camberwell. Elizabeth is single, aged 21. Her occupation is given as Counter Hand in the Restaurant Industry. It maybe that she worked and / or was friends with Kathleen Mary Steven who was a waitress in a restaurant (and the daughter of Thomas and Emma Steven whose home it was). Or maybe the attraction was their son Thomas George who, aged 24, was a seamen in the Royal Navy ....
She was born on 26th April 1869 in Charlton Somerset.
As we have shown elsewhere here, Annie's family moved to London sometime around 1879 - 1881 after her father went to prison for an assault on a woman in Frome. We now know they were in London by the Summer of 1880 because ...
On the 16th August 1880 Annie was admitted to St Clement's Road School in Kensington and Chelsea. Her admission No is 20, and the family address given as 98, Latimer Road. Her previous school appears to have been St James. Annie is eleven years old.
On 6th October 1889 Annie married Sydney Alfred Broome. This was at the Parish Church of St James the Great, Bethnal Green, in the borough of Tower Hamlets. Her father is given as Jacob Norris. The Groom's father is Harry Broome. Both Annie and Sydney are said to be aged 19 years and resident in Bethnal Green. The Groom's occupation is given as Painter; Jacob's occupation is given as Horse Keeper. The two witnesses are Frederick ? & Jane Harris
In the 1901 Census the couple are living in Loughborough Street in the Kennington Division of Lambeth. Annie is 31 years old and her place of birth is recorded as Somerset Charlton. Sidney is said to be 29 and a Builder's Labour. (There is a slight inconsistency here with the ages given on the marriage certificate). Also in the home is Annie and Sidney's daughter Elizabeth Broome. Her place of birth is given as London Kensington or Kennington.
Elizabeth Broome was born on 16th September 1889. Observant readers will notice that this was a few weeks before Annie and Sydney were married. This, however, is consistent with their child being registered as Elizabeth Broome Norris (in the last quarter of 1889). This "irregularity" might be the reason why Elizabeth was not christened immediately.
Elizabeth Broome was christened on 22nd September 1893 at St Barnabas Lambeth. The family's address is not clear; perhaps 54 Paradise (?) Road. The father's occupation is given as Labourer.
At the age of five, on 26th April 1894 Elizabeth was admitted to Springfield School, Lambeth. (The same school that my Grandfather William Norris would later attend). Her admission No is 325.The family address is given, but is not clear, perhaps 53 Marshall Street (?). Elizabeth had previously been at the National School, Camberwell.
Annie died in the final quarter of 1910. Curiously her death is registered in Romford, Essex.
In the 1911 Census Sidney Broome is living at 1 Lowden Road, Herne Hill, London. He is 42, a widower and employed as a House Painter in the Building Industry
In 1911 Annie and Sidney's daughter, Elizabeth Broome, is visiting the Steven Household at 111 Ormside Street, Peckham, Camberwell. Elizabeth is single, aged 21. Her occupation is given as Counter Hand in the Restaurant Industry. It maybe that she worked and / or was friends with Kathleen Mary Steven who was a waitress in a restaurant (and the daughter of Thomas and Emma Steven whose home it was). Or maybe the attraction was their son Thomas George who, aged 24, was a seamen in the Royal Navy ....
Norris Family Research - Latest News
I am presently acquiring a lot of new information which I am trying to process. In brief I have discovered
- what happened to Jacob's youngest daughter Annie
- school admission details for some of both Jacob Norris and Herbert Norris' children
- places of residence for Jacob and Herbert George
- leads relating to two of Herbert George's children - Gladys and Doris Ivy (including photos)
- possible living relatives of Gladys Norris (am awaiting reply to email, fingers crossed)
I will publish as soon as possible!
Tuesday, 12 February 2013
George Norris Goes To School ... & Lily As Well!
Browsing some school records today I found a reference to a brother of my grandfather William Herbert Norris. The brother in question is George Norris
Admission and discharge register for New Road School, Lambeth.
His admission No is 487, and name is given as George Norris. How do I know it is my grandfather's brother? Because his date of birth is given as 15th April 1896 and his father is identified as Herbert G Norris (Herbert George Norris my Great Grandfather). Their address is given as 122 Crimsworth Road. Admission date is 10th November 1902, making George six years old. His previous school appears to be St Barnabas, Lambeth.
New Road School was opened in 1874. It was rebuilt in 1927 and became Bradmede School in 1936-37. it was closed or reorganised in the 1950s
Searching further ... and, yes, George did attend St Barnabas School, Lambeth. His admission No is 1531 and his date of admission 22nd April 1901. The date of birth is given as 13th April 1896, making George nearly five years old. The address given is 9 Springfield Place.
Not only George is found here, but Lily also. She has the same admission date and her admission No is 1532. Lily's date of birth is given as 11th April 1894, making her age here seven years old.
It would appear also that Lily attended Webb Street School, being admitted on 18th April 1898 with an admission number of 121. The adddress given is not clear, but could be 71 Cook Road which is the address given in the 1901 Census.
Searching further ... and, yes, George did attend St Barnabas School, Lambeth. His admission No is 1531 and his date of admission 22nd April 1901. The date of birth is given as 13th April 1896, making George nearly five years old. The address given is 9 Springfield Place.
Not only George is found here, but Lily also. She has the same admission date and her admission No is 1532. Lily's date of birth is given as 11th April 1894, making her age here seven years old.
It would appear also that Lily attended Webb Street School, being admitted on 18th April 1898 with an admission number of 121. The adddress given is not clear, but could be 71 Cook Road which is the address given in the 1901 Census.
Monday, 11 February 2013
William Norris Goes To School
Browsing some school records today I found a reference to my grandfather William Herbert Norris.
Admission and discharge register for Springfield Infant School, Lambeth.
His admission No is 469, and name is given as William Norris. How do I know it is my grandfather? Because his date of birth is given as 20th August 1899 and his father is identified as Herbert Geo Norris (Herbert George Norris my Great Grandfather). His occupation is given as Labourer. Their address is given as 122 Crimsworth Road. Admission date is 20th April 1903, my grandfather is three years old.
Situated in Fount Street, the school was opened in 1882 and was reorganised in the 1970s.
Sunday, 10 February 2013
Two Photo's of Robert Percy Edmunds 1940 & 1945
Here are two photos of my father Robert Percy Edmunds. One was taken in Devon in 1941 when Dad was a radar operator there and the other was taken in Ceylon in 1945, four or five weeks after his release from captivity as a Japanese Prisoner of War.
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| 1940 - Dad is on the far right |
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| 1945 - Dad is in the middle, back row |
Norris - Bristow Marriage Certificate 1918
I have in my possession the marriage certificate of my maternal grandparents William Norris and Lucy Bristow. The certificate provides the following information:
The marriage was solemnized at the Register Office in the District of Southwark in the County of London on the twenty eighth of September 1918. William Herbert Norris is 19 years, a bachelor and a Licensed Victuallers Barman or possibly Barmanager (it is not clear), His address is given as 19 Cooks Road, Kennington Park. His father is Herbert George Norris and his profession is given as House Decorator (Journeyman), Lucy Harrison (?) Bristow is 20 years, a spinster and a Domestic Servant; her address is 64 (?) Claverton Street, Belgravia. Her father is Frederick Bristow and his profession is "Land Farmer". The marriage takes place by licence before the registrar Charles Edward Jones and in the presence of A G Norris and E F Norris. Who are the two witnesses? A G Norris could be my Grandad's older brother George Albert Norris born c 1897, and E F Norris could be his mother Elizabeth Fanny Norris (nee Darby).
The marriage was solemnized at the Register Office in the District of Southwark in the County of London on the twenty eighth of September 1918. William Herbert Norris is 19 years, a bachelor and a Licensed Victuallers Barman or possibly Barmanager (it is not clear), His address is given as 19 Cooks Road, Kennington Park. His father is Herbert George Norris and his profession is given as House Decorator (Journeyman), Lucy Harrison (?) Bristow is 20 years, a spinster and a Domestic Servant; her address is 64 (?) Claverton Street, Belgravia. Her father is Frederick Bristow and his profession is "Land Farmer". The marriage takes place by licence before the registrar Charles Edward Jones and in the presence of A G Norris and E F Norris. Who are the two witnesses? A G Norris could be my Grandad's older brother George Albert Norris born c 1897, and E F Norris could be his mother Elizabeth Fanny Norris (nee Darby).
A Newspaper Cutting
People get into the newspapers for all sorts of reasons, some good and some bad! This is me in a cutting from the Wiltshire Times, circa early sixties, exact date unknown.
The caption reads: "Heather Day and Colin Edmunds lend a hand in the kitchen at the Holy Trinity Young Wives' group annual party at the Church Hall, Trowbridge, last night".
The caption reads: "Heather Day and Colin Edmunds lend a hand in the kitchen at the Holy Trinity Young Wives' group annual party at the Church Hall, Trowbridge, last night".
Saturday, 2 February 2013
The Cobern Family
My paternal Grandmother was Ethel Cobern. She married my grandfather, Herbert Edmunds in 1902.
Ethel was born c 1880 in Whiteparish, Wiltshire. Her parents were Henry Cobern - born c 1850 in Whiteparish - and Sarah Sillence born c 1851 in Sherfield, Hampshire.
Henry and Sarah married in 1870 in Romsey, Hampshire.
In the 1881 Census, Henry, aged 31, is working as a Domestic Servant - Coachman, and living in Whiteparish with his wife, and four children: George, Sarah, William and Ethel. Their home is The Stables, Broxmore House.
In the 1891 Census the family is living at Portway Road, Stratford Under the Castle, in Aldbury, Wiltshire. Henry, aged 41, is listed as an Agricultural Labourer, Sarah is there aged 40, as are also there children: William (aged 13), Ethel (aged 11), Edith (aged 8), Alice (aged 4), Robert (aged 2).
In the 1901 Census the family is living in Sand Road, Whiteparish. Henry, aged 50, is now employed as an Agricultural Labourer. Along with his wife Sarah (aged 49), their children Laura (aged 5), Robert (aged 12), Stephen (aged 8) and William (aged 23) are there. Also there is a Grandson Charles, who is less than a year old.
In the 1911 Census the family is living in Sand Road, Whiteparish; Henry aged 61 is employed as a Farm Labourer. Sarah is 59 - she and Henry have been married 41 years and have all of their 9 children surviving. Also living at the address are George (aged 38), Stephen (aged 18) and two grand children Charles Cobern (aged 10) and Frederick Targett (aged 5)
All together, Henry and Sarah had 9 children, all of whom were born in Whiteparish, Wiiltshire:
George Cobern (1872 - 1942)
In the 1911 Census, George is aged 38. single, living with his parents and working as a General Labourer on a farm
Sarah Cobern (1875 - 1966)
William Cobern - (1877 - 1951)
In the 1881 Census William is aged 13, living with parents and working as an Errand Boy.
In the 1901 Census, aged 23, William is still living with parents and working as a Groom - with the note "not domestic"
Ethel Cobern (1880 - 1953) - my Grandmother
In the 1891 Census Ethel, aged 11, is a scholar living in the family home
In the 1901 Census, aged 21 and single, Ethel is living as a domestic cook / housemaid at Copythorne Vicarage, Copythorne in the New Forest, the Vicar being Francis J Ambridge of St Mary's North Elling).
What the 1901 Census doesn't tell us, but other research does, is that back in the family home in Whiteparish Ethel's son Charles is being cared for by her parents.
Edith Cobern (1883 - 1961)
Alice Cobern (1887 - 1966)
Robert Cobern (1888 - 1970)
In the 1901 Census, Robert is aged 12, living with his parents and working as a Boy With Horses on Farm.
Stephen Cobern - born c 1893
In the 1911 Census Stephen is aged 18, single and living with parents. His employment is that of Workman on Farm
Laura Cobern (1896 - 1949)
Ethel was born c 1880 in Whiteparish, Wiltshire. Her parents were Henry Cobern - born c 1850 in Whiteparish - and Sarah Sillence born c 1851 in Sherfield, Hampshire.
Henry and Sarah married in 1870 in Romsey, Hampshire.
In the 1881 Census, Henry, aged 31, is working as a Domestic Servant - Coachman, and living in Whiteparish with his wife, and four children: George, Sarah, William and Ethel. Their home is The Stables, Broxmore House.
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| Broxmore House, Whiteparish |
In the 1891 Census the family is living at Portway Road, Stratford Under the Castle, in Aldbury, Wiltshire. Henry, aged 41, is listed as an Agricultural Labourer, Sarah is there aged 40, as are also there children: William (aged 13), Ethel (aged 11), Edith (aged 8), Alice (aged 4), Robert (aged 2).
In the 1901 Census the family is living in Sand Road, Whiteparish. Henry, aged 50, is now employed as an Agricultural Labourer. Along with his wife Sarah (aged 49), their children Laura (aged 5), Robert (aged 12), Stephen (aged 8) and William (aged 23) are there. Also there is a Grandson Charles, who is less than a year old.
In the 1911 Census the family is living in Sand Road, Whiteparish; Henry aged 61 is employed as a Farm Labourer. Sarah is 59 - she and Henry have been married 41 years and have all of their 9 children surviving. Also living at the address are George (aged 38), Stephen (aged 18) and two grand children Charles Cobern (aged 10) and Frederick Targett (aged 5)
All together, Henry and Sarah had 9 children, all of whom were born in Whiteparish, Wiiltshire:
George Cobern (1872 - 1942)
In the 1911 Census, George is aged 38. single, living with his parents and working as a General Labourer on a farm
Sarah Cobern (1875 - 1966)
William Cobern - (1877 - 1951)
In the 1881 Census William is aged 13, living with parents and working as an Errand Boy.
In the 1901 Census, aged 23, William is still living with parents and working as a Groom - with the note "not domestic"
Ethel Cobern (1880 - 1953) - my Grandmother
In the 1891 Census Ethel, aged 11, is a scholar living in the family home
In the 1901 Census, aged 21 and single, Ethel is living as a domestic cook / housemaid at Copythorne Vicarage, Copythorne in the New Forest, the Vicar being Francis J Ambridge of St Mary's North Elling).
What the 1901 Census doesn't tell us, but other research does, is that back in the family home in Whiteparish Ethel's son Charles is being cared for by her parents.
Edith Cobern (1883 - 1961)
Alice Cobern (1887 - 1966)
Robert Cobern (1888 - 1970)
In the 1901 Census, Robert is aged 12, living with his parents and working as a Boy With Horses on Farm.
Stephen Cobern - born c 1893
In the 1911 Census Stephen is aged 18, single and living with parents. His employment is that of Workman on Farm
Laura Cobern (1896 - 1949)
Friday, 1 February 2013
At Home With the Edmunds' - Barkers Hill
My father was Robert Percy Edmunds. His father was Herbert Edmunds and his mother Ethel Cobern. The family home whilst my father was growing up was Hill Top, Barkers Hill, Semley, Near Shaftesbury, Wiltshire.
The Edmunds' home appears on the Evacuation register for 1940.We find there that the house has five habitable rooms and four people ordinarily present. The possible number of persons who could be accommodated is given as one.
My late father left passed-on several memories of this home ...
It was from one of the upper floor windows of this house that my father fell when he was about two years old. Fortunately no lasting damage was done!
My grandmother one day dropped a pudding on the floor. It fell to pieces but she put it back on the plate to serve it anyway. My grandfather apparently said: "Well that looks a bloody mess dear", upon which she deposited the contents of the plate on his head!
My grandparents ran a small grocery shop from the house. It is listed in Kelly's Directory from 1923; for 1939 it reads, "Edmunds Herbert, Grocer, Barkers Hill". Mention is made of the shop in a discovered childhood memoir by a woman only identified by the initials K.K. "Mrs Edmunds had a little shop at the top of Barkers Hill - just a few groceries and stamps. I often had to run up there when we ran out of tea or sugar".
My grandfather apparently had little formal education but was self taught and local people often came to him for advice; my grandmother would often be called upon to attend births and deaths.
My grandfather often said that this cottage would one day be worth a fortune - he was right, today it is probably worth about half-million pounds! Shame it is no longer in the family!
Looking at the 1925 electoral register, Herbert and Ethel are both there.
On the electoral register for 1934 Herbert and Ethel are both listed as living here, along with their son Albert William Edmunds and his wife Hannah Elizabeth.
The 1939 register mentions Herbert and Ethel, and also my dad's brother Clifford.
Electoral Register
Looking at the 1925 electoral register, Herbert and Ethel are both there.
On the electoral register for 1934 Herbert and Ethel are both listed as living here, along with their son Albert William Edmunds and his wife Hannah Elizabeth.
The 1939 register mentions Herbert and Ethel, and also my dad's brother Clifford.
Evacuation Register
The Edmunds' home appears on the Evacuation register for 1940.We find there that the house has five habitable rooms and four people ordinarily present. The possible number of persons who could be accommodated is given as one.
To be continued
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