Divorce of Elizabeth Fanny and Herbert George Norris Confirmed in High Court Documents!

I now have in my possession copies of documents pertaining to the divorce of my maternal Great Grandparents, Herbert George Norris and Elizabeth Fanny Norris (nee Darby).

It is now clear that in 1924 Elizabeth Fanny Darby made application in the High Court of Justice to be admitted as a Poor Person under the 20 & 22 Rules of the Supreme Court for the purpose of prosecuting a suit of divorce. This application was successful and on 29th of January, 1925 made oath "In the Matter of the Petition of Elizabeth Fanny Norris the lawful wife of Herbert George Norris for the Dissolution of Marriage". Here, Elizabeth is stated to reside at "10, Richmond Terrace, Clapham in the County of London" and oath is made as to the veracity of statements that she had made in support of her petition. Elizabeth also makes oath to the effect "That there is not any collusion or connivance between me and my husband Herbert George Norris in any way whatever".

On the 4th of February  the following petition for dissolution was filed: "To the Right Honourable the President" "IN THE HIGH COURT OF JUSTICE PROBATE DIVORCE & ADMIRALTY DIVISION (DIVORCE)": 

"The Humble Petition of Elizabeth Fanny Norris suing as a Poor Person the lawful wife of Herbert George Norris SHEWETH: -

1. That on the 21st day of October 1894 at the Parish Church of St. James the Great in the County of Middlesex your Petitioner was lawfully married to Herbert George Norris.

2. That after the said marriage your Petitioner lived and cohabited with the said Herbert George Norris at 19, Cooks Road, Walworth in the County of London and at divers other places and there are now living issue of the said marriage eight children viz:- George Herbert born 11th April, 1896, William born 20th June 1899, Florence Elizabeth born 20th August, 1901 Herbert Albert born 22nd March, 1903, Cecil Charles born 7th June, 1906, Gladys Marie Maud born 28th March 1908, Oliver Leonard, born 3rd July, 1910, Doris Ivy born 30th June, 1912.

3. That your Petitioner is now living at 10, Richmond Terrace, Clapham in the County of London and the said Herbert George Norris is a decorator and is now living at 19, Cooks Road, Walforth, aforesaid and they are both domiciled in England.

4. That no previous proceedings with reference to the said marriage have been taken in the Divorce Division of this Honourable Court by or on behalf of any of the parties thereto.

5. That the said Herbert George Norris has frequently committed adultery with Sarah Rogers of 78 St Paul's Road.

6. That on divers occasions between the 12th day of August 1923 and in or about the middle of March, 1924 at 19, Cooks Road, Walworth aforesaid the said Herbert George Norris committed adultery with Sarah Rogers.

Your Petitioner therefore prays:-

1. That the said marriage of your Petitioner with the said Herbert George Norris may be dissolved.

2. That the Petitioner may have the custody of Oliver Leonard, Cecil Charles, Doris Ivy, Gladys Marie Maud children of the said marriage.

3. That your Petitioner may have such further and other relief as may be just".

According to the Court Minutes the petition was filed on 4th February 1925 and the Cause Set Down on 30th April 1926. The Petition was not contested and the Minutes go on to record that the Decree Nisi was issued on 30th July 1926 and the Decree Absolute on 14th March 1927; the whole process taking over two years.

Looking through the documents, I notice that:

1. the identification of the named woman, Sarah Rogers (who Herbert George Norris later married) was made by my Great Grandparent's son Herbert Albert Norris.

2. an order was made in the High Court of Justice - dated 1st of April 1925 - "that the respondent do pay to the Petitioner Alimony pendente lite at the rate of 15/- a week to include the maintenance of the child Ivy Doris". The Order went on "Arrears as from the 26th February 1925 to be paid off at the rate of 5/- per week. Payments to be made weekly. This Order to be without prejudice to any final Order".

3. an order was made in the High Court of Justice - dated 30th April 1925 that "the Respondent do, within seven days from the service of this Order lodge in Court the sum of £5 estimated ... to cover the Costs and Expenses of the Petitioner of and incidental to the Hearing of the Cause as a Poor Person".

4. on the 30th July 1926, the Judge - the Honourable Sir Rigby Swift -  "sitting at the Royal Courts of Justice, Strand, in the county of Middlesex", "having taken the oral evidence of the Petitioner and of the Witness produced on her behalf in support of the Petition filed in this Cause, and having heard Counsel thereon, the Respondent not defending the Suit at the hearing pronounced that the Petitioner had sufficiently proved the contents of the said Petition, and decreed that the Marriage ... be dissolved by reason that since the celebration thereof the said Respondent has been guilty of adultery ... unless sufficient cause be shown to the court why this Decree should not be made absolute within Six Months from the making thereof, and condemned the said Respondent in the costs incurred and to be incurred on behalf of the said Petitioner in this cause". On the same occasion it was ordered that "Doris Norris youngest issue of the marriage between the Petitioner and the Respondent, do remain in the custody of the Petitioner until further order of the Court".

5. Dated 30th March 1927, the following Order was made in the High Court of Justice "that Herbert George Norris the Respondent do, out of his present income, and until further order of this Court, pay or cause to be paid to Elizabeth Fanny Norris the Petitioner during their joint lives Maintenance at and after the rate of £1.5.0 for herself and 5/- for the youngest child of the marriage, both sums per week, to commence from the date of the final decree in this Cause, to wit, 14 March 1927 and to be payable weekly".

Recent Visit to Barkers Hill and Donhead St Andrew

Monday 11th November saw us in The Donheads for the funeral of my mothers dearest friend Amy Ruth Mitchell (nee Else). Finding ourselves with time to spare we knocked on the door of Hilltop, the old Edmunds family home on Barkers Hill. We couldn't have had a warmer welcome from Martin, the present owner. He gave us a guided tour of the cottage and Mum was able to tell how it had changed from the time when Dad had lived there. It was good to know that, although the inside of the property had been somewhat opened up, many of the original features remain. Mum was able to point out where Mrs Edmunds had her shop and remembered that my Grandfather had dug a well in what was now the drive.

The present owner moved to the property in 2010 and told us that they found that the house had very little insulation in the roof and on the front of the house, being very difficult to keep warm their first winter there.

Work on the house, however, has revealed some interesting Edmunds memorabilia! Whilst work was going on in the loft three wage slips were found in the name of Edmunds. The earliest is dated 29th October 1937 and the latest 2nd June 1939. As the wage slips are for the Wiltshire and Dorset Bus Company it is certain that they relate to Dad's brother Clifford, my Uncle Cliff.

Also found, were some cigarette packets and cards, these  possibly having belonged to my father - Dad was never a smoker but he was an avid collector of cards in his youth and we still have his collection today.

We are very grateful to Martin for his kindness to us and for his interest in the history of those who used to live in his house! We are also very pleased to have an invitation to tea when the weather is better!

Donhead St Andrew Church Choir c.1930

This is a photo of Donhead St Andrew Church choir, taken (I would guess) around 1930. My father, Robert Percy Edmunds (usually known as "Bob") is seated in the middle of the front row. Dad identified those in the picture thus:

Back Row Boys - Left to Right: Roy Scammell, Tom Gray, Clyde Higgins, Walter King, Lewes Bartlett & Jim Gray

Next Row (Men) - Left to Right: Reg Wagstaff, Mr Lovett, Tom Sanger & Reg Andrews

Next Row - Left to Right: Norman Gray, Ernest King, Major Hill, Canon Clark, Frank Logan (?), Ern Howell & Reggie Head

Front Row - Left to Right: Frank Lampard, Bob Edmunds & Peter Mullins

1925 - Elizabeth Fanny Norris Petitions For Divorce

I have tonight discovered that in 1925 Elizabeth Fanny Norris petitioned to divorce my Great Grandfather, Herbert George Norris - this confirms my thoughts / findings as recorded else where on this blog

The Will of Herbert William Edmunds

I have in my possession a copy of my grandfather's will. The text is given below (the punctuation, grammar etc is as per the original):

“This is a true copy of the will of me Herbert William Edmunds builders labourer retired of Semley Wilts made this 12^th day of August One Thousand nine hundred and 53. I appoint my daughter Dorothy Mabel Edmunds to be my executor and direct that all my debts and funeral expenses shall be paid as soon as conveniently may be after my decease I give and Bequeath unto my Daughter Dorothy Mabel Edmunds the small thatched roof cottage to be hers absolutely for her past services and great devotion to her dear mother in her long illness and to myself over a period of 5 months as some small compensation for such service. My Will also is that as soon after my death as is convenient my daughter Dorothy Mabel Edmunds shall sell the house as occupied by myself and after paying all expenses in connection with my funeral and any other outstanding debts retain for herself the sum of £200.00 pounds that she has loaned on the above mentioned house and any surplus remaining after she has repaid herself the above mentioned Two Hundred pounds to be equally divided between all my children my above mentioned daughter Dorothy Mabel Edmunds also to take her share of the surplus if any in addition to the sum of 200 pounds as aforesaid stated in this my will".

Herbert W Edmunds

& two other signatories

Bed & Breakfast in Weymouth

Apologies for not adding to this blog recently. This has been due to my wife and I moving to Weymouth where we are opening a Bed & Breakfast. If you are looking for a break, why not pay us a visit!

Click here to discover our B&B in Weymouth, Dorset, UK

Herbert George Norris, 19 Cooks Road & Sarah Jane Rogers

It is a memory of my mother that her grandparents Herbert George Norris and Elizabeth Fanny (nee Darby) separated. She remembers that her grandmother went on a cruise with another man but nothing else. An examination of the electoral role, however, reveals a little more information.

Looking at the electoral roles for 1918 we find that Herbert George Norris and his wife are living at 19 Cooks Road, Southwark. The couple are also living there in 1919 and 1920. From 1921, however, Elizabeth Fanny is not listed at this address. Instead, in 1921, there is Herbert George Norris and three others: William Arthur Norris, Mabel Jessie Norris and Alfred Walter Thorpe. In the years that follow, the people living at 19 Cooks Road changes quite frequently - but there is no record of an Elizabeth Fanny Norris living there again. What is interesting, however, is that in 1928 a Sarah Jane Rogers is resident at the address, and continues there in 1929 ... come 1931, however, there is no Sarah Jane Rogers but there is a Sarah Jane Norris ... is that the same person? It very much looks like it is, because in the marriage records for the second quarter of 1930 we find that a Herbert George Norris married a Sarah Jane Rogers in Southwark ...!

According to the electoral roll, Herbert George and Sarah Jane Norris continued to live at 19 Cooks Road until at least 1939 ... at least thirteen other names are also associated with this address during that period. It seems likely, therefore, that the couple took in lodgers; but it is interesting to note that a number of the names are Rogers ... Florence Rogers, Frank Rogers, Albert Rogers, Edward Rogers, Arthur Rogers and George Henry Rogers ... and these, perhaps, are vital clues to identifying the woman who became Herbert George's second wife; but that is work for another day ...

As always, thoughts and further information are warmly welcome!

Gladys Norris

A fellow descendant of George Herbert Norris and researcher into the Norris family has kindly supplied me with some photos. They include these pictures of Gladys Norris.

Gladys Norris as a young woman

Gladys Norris in later life

Gladys Norris was the daughter of George Herbert Norris and his wife Elizabeth Fanny Darby. She was, therefore, my grandfather's sister. Acoording to the 1911 Census Gladys was born in 1907 in Tooeting (sic), Surrey.

With thanks to Karen for supplying the photos

Doris Ivy Norris

A fellow descendant of George Herbert Norris and researcher into the Norris family has kindly supplied me with some photos. They include this picture of Doris Ivy Norris.

Doris Ivy Norris

Doris Ivy Norris was the daughter of George Herbert Norris and his wife Elizabeth Fanny Darby. She was, therefore, my grandfather's sister. She was born in 1912 in Southwark.

With thanks to Karen for supplying the photo

A Photo of my Grandfather Herbert Edmunds

Herbert Edmunds

This is my paternal Grandfather Herbert Edmunds, the son of Harriet Edmunds. Herbert was born in 1880, in Boscombe, Wiltshire.

A Photo of Harriet Edmunds

It's an ill wind that blows no good ... our house needs some work done on the roof, I have to sort out the loft in preparation ... What do I find? A large collection of my late father's photographs, including this picture of my Great Grandmother Harriet Edmunds! Looking at this picture, the word that comes to mind is ... kindly ...

Harriet Edmunds

Military Career of William Arthur Norris (b 1899)

I  have previously written of another William Arthur Norris and his military career; that was the son of Jacob Norris (my Great Great Grandfather) who was quickly discharged after enlisting in the Lancers on the grounds that he was unlikely to make a capable soldier. The William Arthur Norris that I write about here is the grandson of Jacob Norris, born to his son Frederick J Norris c 1899. He is therefore the cousin of my grandfather William Herbert Norris and of the same age.

William Arthur Norris (b 1899) joined the army on the 5th of May 1915, signing up for the duration of the war with the 17th Battalion Kings Royal Rifles. He is given the Regimental No C3097. William Arthur's Service Record tells us that his next of kin is Frederick John Norris and that the family home is 163 Wolsely Buildings, Jacob Street, Bermondsey. His occupation is given as that of a Packer at a Cake Bakery. William Arthur's military career, however, did not last very long. He was posted on 5th May 1915 but discharged on 9th August of the same year because he was underage. William Arthur had falsely claimed to be 19 years and 90 days; in fact he was only about 16.

But this is not the  end of the story ... because on 2nd October 1915 - and still underage - William Arthur Norris joined the 12th Battalion (Bermondsey) of the East Surrey Regiment. He was given the No 14150. The record appears damaged but this information about William Arthur Norris can be gleaned:

Height - 6 feet
Chest when fully expanded - 37 inches
Range of expansion - 2 inches
Weight - 134 pounds
Complexion - fresh
Eyes - blue
Hair - brown

His occupation is now given as Carman

Distinguishing marks are mentioned: a mole on the left upper lip and a scar on left side of the neck and the front of the left ear (suggesting perhaps a wound from a knife?)

The address that is given for his father is the same as he gave at his earlier enlistment.

William Arthur Norris was posted on 2nd October 1915. By 12th November, however, he had been struck off as a deserter! The only event mentioned on his service record is for the offence of overstaying his pass by seven days for which he was confined to barracks for fourteen days and forfeited seven days pay.

It is difficult to avoid the conclusion that William Arthur Norris was something of a handful; even so his father appears concerned for his welfare. He writes to his son's Commanding Officer ...

Annie Norris

Annie Norris was the youngest child of Jacob Norris (my Great Great Grandfather).

She was born on 26th April 1869 in Charlton Somerset.

As we have shown elsewhere here, Annie's family moved to London sometime around 1879 - 1881 after her father went to prison for an assault on a woman in Frome. We now know they were in London by the Summer of 1880 because ...

On the 16th August 1880 Annie was admitted to St Clement's Road School in Kensington and Chelsea. Her admission No is 20, and the family address given as 98, Latimer Road. Her previous school appears to have been St James. Annie is eleven years old.

On 6th October 1889 Annie married Sydney Alfred Broome. This was at the Parish Church of St James the Great, Bethnal Green, in the borough of Tower Hamlets. Her father is given as Jacob Norris. The Groom's father is Harry Broome. Both Annie and Sydney are said to be aged 19 years and resident in Bethnal Green. The Groom's occupation is given as Painter; Jacob's occupation is given as Horse Keeper. The two witnesses are Frederick ? & Jane Harris

In the 1901 Census the couple are living in Loughborough Street in the Kennington Division of Lambeth. Annie is 31 years old and her place of birth is recorded as Somerset Charlton. Sidney is said to be 29 and a Builder's Labour. (There is a slight inconsistency here with the ages given on the marriage certificate). Also in the home is Annie and Sidney's daughter Elizabeth Broome. Her place of birth is given as London Kensington or Kennington.

Elizabeth Broome was born on 16th September 1889. Observant readers will notice that this was a few weeks before Annie and Sydney were married. This, however, is consistent with their child being registered as Elizabeth Broome Norris (in the last quarter of 1889). This "irregularity" might be the reason why Elizabeth was not christened immediately.

Elizabeth Broome was christened on 22nd September 1893 at St Barnabas Lambeth. The family's address is not clear; perhaps 54 Paradise (?) Road. The father's occupation is given as Labourer.

At the age of five, on 26th April 1894 Elizabeth was admitted to Springfield School, Lambeth. (The same school that my Grandfather William Norris would later attend). Her admission No is 325.The family address is given, but is not clear, perhaps 53 Marshall Street (?). Elizabeth had previously been at the National School, Camberwell.

Annie died in the final quarter of 1910. Curiously her death is registered in Romford, Essex.

In the 1911 Census Sidney Broome is living at 1 Lowden Road, Herne Hill, London. He is 42, a widower and employed as a House Painter in the Building Industry

Click here to see Lowden Road in 1910

In 1911 Annie and Sidney's daughter, Elizabeth Broome, is visiting the Steven Household at 111 Ormside Street, Peckham, Camberwell. Elizabeth is single, aged 21. Her occupation is given as Counter Hand in the Restaurant Industry. It maybe that she worked and / or was friends with Kathleen Mary Steven who was a waitress in a restaurant (and the daughter of Thomas and Emma Steven whose home it was). Or maybe the attraction was their son Thomas George who, aged 24, was a seamen in the Royal Navy ....

Norris Family Research - Latest News

I am presently acquiring a lot of new information which I am trying to process. In brief I have discovered

• what happened to Jacob's youngest daughter Annie
• school admission details for some of both Jacob Norris and Herbert Norris' children
• places of residence for Jacob and Herbert George
• leads relating to two of Herbert George's children - Gladys and Doris Ivy (including photos)
• possible living relatives of Gladys Norris (am awaiting reply to email, fingers crossed)

I will publish as soon as possible!

George Norris Goes To School ... & Lily As Well!

Browsing some school records today I found a reference to a brother of my grandfather William Herbert Norris. The brother in question is George Norris

Admission and discharge register for New Road School, Lambeth. 

His admission No is 487, and name is given as George Norris. How do I know it is my grandfather's brother? Because his date of birth is given as 15th April 1896 and his father is identified as Herbert G Norris (Herbert George Norris my Great Grandfather). Their address is given as 122 Crimsworth Road. Admission date is 10th November 1902, making George six years old. His previous school appears to be St Barnabas, Lambeth.

New Road School was opened in 1874. It was rebuilt in 1927 and became Bradmede School in 1936-37. it was closed or reorganised in the 1950s

Searching further ... and, yes, George did attend St Barnabas School, Lambeth. His admission No is 1531 and his date of admission 22nd April 1901. The date of birth is given as 13th April 1896, making George nearly five years old. The address given is 9 Springfield Place.

Not only George is found here, but Lily also. She has the same admission date and her admission No is 1532. Lily's date of birth is given as 11th April 1894, making her age here seven years old.

It would appear also that Lily attended Webb Street School, being admitted on 18th April 1898 with an admission number of 121. The adddress given is not clear, but could be 71 Cook Road which is the address given in the 1901 Census.

William Norris Goes To School

Browsing some school records today I found a reference to my grandfather William Herbert Norris.

Admission and discharge register for Springfield Infant School, Lambeth. 

His admission No is 469, and name is given as William Norris. How do I know it is my grandfather? Because his date of birth is given as 20th August 1899 and his father is identified as Herbert Geo Norris (Herbert George Norris my Great Grandfather). His occupation is given as Labourer. Their address is given as 122 Crimsworth Road. Admission date is 20th April 1903, my grandfather is three years old.

Situated in Fount Street, the school was opened in 1882 and was reorganised in the 1970s.

Two Photo's of Robert Percy Edmunds 1940 & 1945

Here are two photos of my father Robert Percy Edmunds. One was taken in Devon in 1941 when Dad was a radar operator there and the other was taken in Ceylon in 1945, four or five weeks after his release from captivity as a Japanese Prisoner of War.

1940 - Dad is on the far right

1945 - Dad is in the middle, back row

Norris - Bristow Marriage Certificate 1918

I have in my possession the marriage certificate of my maternal grandparents William Norris and Lucy Bristow. The certificate provides the following information:

The marriage was solemnized at the Register Office in the District of Southwark in the County of London on the twenty eighth of September 1918. William Herbert Norris is 19 years, a bachelor and a Licensed Victuallers Barman or possibly Barmanager (it is not clear), His address is given as 19 Cooks Road, Kennington Park. His father is Herbert George Norris and his profession is given as House Decorator (Journeyman), Lucy Harrison (?) Bristow is 20 years, a spinster and a Domestic Servant; her address is 64 (?) Claverton Street, Belgravia. Her father is Frederick Bristow and his profession is "Land Farmer". The marriage takes place by licence before the registrar Charles Edward Jones and in the presence of A G Norris and E F Norris. Who are the two witnesses? A G Norris could be my Grandad's older brother George Albert Norris born c 1897, and E F Norris could be his mother Elizabeth Fanny Norris (nee Darby).

A Newspaper Cutting

People get into the newspapers for all sorts of reasons, some good and some bad! This is me in a cutting from the Wiltshire Times, circa early sixties, exact date unknown.

The caption reads: "Heather Day and Colin Edmunds lend a hand in the kitchen at the Holy Trinity Young Wives' group annual party at the Church Hall, Trowbridge, last night".

The Cobern Family

My paternal Grandmother was Ethel Cobern. She married my grandfather, Herbert Edmunds in 1902.

Ethel was born c 1880 in Whiteparish, Wiltshire. Her parents were Henry Cobern - born c 1850  in Whiteparish - and Sarah Sillence born c 1851 in Sherfield, Hampshire.

Henry and Sarah married in 1870 in Romsey, Hampshire.

In the 1881 Census, Henry, aged 31, is working as a Domestic Servant - Coachman, and living in Whiteparish with his wife, and four children: George, Sarah, William and Ethel. Their home is The Stables, Broxmore House.

Broxmore House, Whiteparish

In the 1891 Census the family is living at Portway Road, Stratford Under the Castle, in Aldbury, Wiltshire. Henry, aged 41, is listed as an Agricultural Labourer, Sarah is there aged 40, as are also there children: William (aged 13), Ethel (aged 11), Edith (aged 8), Alice (aged 4), Robert (aged 2).

In the 1901 Census the family is living in Sand Road, Whiteparish. Henry, aged 50, is now employed as an Agricultural Labourer. Along with his wife Sarah (aged 49), their children Laura (aged 5), Robert (aged 12), Stephen (aged 8) and William (aged 23) are there. Also there is a Grandson Charles, who is less than a year old.

In the 1911 Census the family is living in Sand Road, Whiteparish; Henry aged 61 is employed as a Farm Labourer. Sarah is 59 - she and Henry have been married 41 years and have all of their 9 children surviving. Also living at the address are George (aged 38), Stephen (aged 18) and two grand children Charles Cobern (aged 10) and Frederick Targett (aged 5)

All together, Henry and Sarah had 9 children, all of whom were born in Whiteparish, Wiiltshire:

George Cobern (1872 - 1942)

In the 1911 Census, George is aged 38. single, living with his parents and working as a General Labourer on a farm

Sarah Cobern (1875 - 1966)

William Cobern - (1877 - 1951)

In the 1881 Census William is aged 13, living with parents and working as an Errand Boy.

In the 1901 Census, aged 23, William is still living with parents and working as a Groom - with the note "not domestic"

Ethel Cobern  (1880 - 1953) - my Grandmother

In the 1891 Census Ethel, aged 11, is a scholar living in the family home

In the 1901 Census, aged 21 and single, Ethel is living as a domestic cook / housemaid at Copythorne Vicarage, Copythorne in the New Forest, the Vicar being Francis J Ambridge of St Mary's North Elling).

What the 1901 Census doesn't tell us, but other research does, is that back in the family home in Whiteparish Ethel's son Charles is being cared for by her parents.

Edith Cobern (1883 - 1961)

Alice Cobern (1887 - 1966)

Robert Cobern (1888 - 1970)

In the 1901 Census, Robert is aged 12, living with his parents and working as a Boy With Horses on Farm.

Stephen Cobern - born c 1893

In the 1911 Census Stephen is aged 18, single and living with parents. His employment is that of Workman on Farm

Laura Cobern (1896 - 1949)

At Home With the Edmunds' - Barkers Hill

My father was Robert Percy Edmunds. His father was Herbert Edmunds and his mother Ethel Cobern. The family home whilst my father was growing up was Hill Top, Barkers Hill, Semley, Near Shaftesbury, Wiltshire.

My late father left passed-on several memories of this home ...

It was from one of the upper floor windows of this house that my father fell when he was about two years old. Fortunately no lasting damage was done! 

My grandmother one day dropped a pudding on the floor. It fell to pieces but she put it back on the plate to serve it anyway. My grandfather apparently said: "Well that looks a bloody mess dear", upon which she deposited the contents of the plate on his head!

My grandparents ran a small grocery shop from the house. It is listed in Kelly's Directory from 1923; for 1939 it reads, "Edmunds Herbert, Grocer, Barkers Hill". Mention is made of the shop in a discovered childhood memoir by a woman only identified by the initials K.K. "Mrs Edmunds had a little shop at the top of Barkers Hill - just a few groceries and stamps. I often had to run up there when we ran out of tea or sugar".

Click here to read the full memoir of a childhood in Semley

My grandfather apparently had little formal education but was self taught and local people often came to him for advice; my grandmother would often be called upon to attend births and deaths.

My grandfather often said that this cottage would one day be worth a fortune - he was right, today it is probably worth about half-million pounds! Shame it is no longer in the family!

Electoral Register

Looking at the 1925 electoral register, Herbert and Ethel are both there.
On the electoral register for 1934 Herbert and Ethel are both listed as living here, along with their son Albert William Edmunds and his wife Hannah Elizabeth.
The 1939 register mentions Herbert and Ethel, and also my dad's brother Clifford.

Evacuation Register

The Edmunds' home appears on the Evacuation register for 1940.We find there that the house has five habitable rooms and four people ordinarily present. The possible number of persons who could be accommodated is given as one.

To be continued

Military Career of William Arthur Norris (b.1883)

When one finds an ancestor who has voluntarily joined the Military there is always the hope that their is an accompanying story of heroism and endeavour to uncover. The reality is often very different and rather more mundane ...

William Arthur Norris (born c 1883) was a son of Jacob Norris, a brother of my Great Grandfather Herbert George Norris.

In January 1902 William Arthur Norris joined the Lancers of the Line and the Cavalry of the British Army. He took his oath of loyalty in London on January 20th and, having been pronounced physically fit, was given the service number 5606,

William Arthur's Service Record provides us with the following information ...

It tells us that he was born in Vauxhall, London, Surrey; that his age upon entry was 18 years, 11 months and that his occupation was as a printer. The Service Record also indicates that he had previously been living with his father and that he had neither been an apprentice or in prison.

His height is given as 5 feet 7 and 3/4 inches, weight 136 lbs and chest 34-36 inches
His complexion is described as sallow, his hair brown and his eyes blue.One distinguishing mark is identified - a blue mark on the left forearm.

William Arthur's religion is given as Church of England

On the 22nd of January William Arthur was posted to the 12th Lancers and joined his unit in Ballincollig, in Ireland, on the 24th. His service lasted just 57 days. On 17th of March 1902 he was discharged "as not likely to become an efficient soldier"

At the back of his Service Record we find a note of his next of kin. His father Jacob Norris is mentioned first, and his address is given as C/o Mr Reed's Yard, Mill Street Bermondsey. Then three older brothers are mentioned. The first is Sam Norris - address unknown ...! An exciting find as this is the first time we have come across him and so appears to be one of the two children of Jacob & Elizabeth that we had hitherto not been able to find! The other two brothers mentioned are Frederick Norris of 18, Neckenger St, Bermondsey, and Albert George Norris of 24(?) Long Lane, Bermondsey.

John Funnell & Elizabeth Bristow

In the 1911 Census we find that there was a boarder residing in the home of my great grandparents, Frederick and Elizabeth Bristow, and their family. His name was John Funnell. In the 1911 Census his age is given as 10 years and his place of birth as Wivelsfield, Sussex.

John Funnell with Elizabeth Bristow

In 1911 John is living with the Bristows at Old Farm Chailey Green. Lucy Bristow, my grandmother, is also there, aged 12 years. My mum remembers that Frederick and Elizabeth had a very close relationship with John Funnell and that they were like a mum and dad to him.This is rather confirmed by the two photographs here.

Looking at the returns for the 1901 Census we find John living with his parents in Wivelsfield Road, Wivelsfield. His father is John Funnell, a 33 year old Cowman, and his mother Anna, aged 32 years.

If we want to know why John was residing with the Bristows in 1911 we perhaps find the answer in the death records, where we have the death of an Anna Funnel registered at Lewes in the third quarter of 1907.

John Funnell died at Southland Hospital, Shoreham-by-Sea, Sussex on 28th December 1947.

It is interesting to find that John Funnell's estate of just over £568 was administered by a Ann Esther Ellen Langridge, the wife of Henry Cecil Langridge. The marriage records indicate that Henry Cecil Langridge married Anna E E Funnell in 1937. In the 1911 Census an Ester (sic) Funnell, aged 5, was living with a John and Eva Wright in Wivelsfield. John's occupation is given as Cowman Gardner. John's relationship (as Head) to Ester is given as "nurse child". This leads me to wonder whether John had a sister who, after the death of their mother, went and lived with another family whilst he went and stayed with the Bristows. This sister then administered his estate upon his death.

John Funnell and Elizabeth Bristow

With thanks to Ian Braban for supplying both the photographs on this page!

The Children of Jacob Norris

Jacob was my Great, Great Grandfather. On 1st June 1868, at the age of 21 he married Eliza Hughes, then aged 20, at St Peter and Paul, Kilmersdon, Somerset. In the 1911 Census his wife Eliza is said to have had 10 children, 6 of whom are still living and 4 whom have died. Who are these children? To date these are identified as:

1) William Arthur - born c1883

In the 1911 Census he is living with his parents. He is aged 28, his estimated birth date is 1883 and his place of birth given as Vauxhall. He is employed as a Policeman in the Docks.

In the 1901 Census he appears as William, aged 18; he is living with his parents and his birth place is given as Clapham, London. He is employed as a printer's labourer.

In the 1891 Census he appears as William, aged 8; he is living with his parents and his place of birth is given as Notting Hill.

2) Henry "Harry" Charles - born c 1885

In the 1911 Census he is living with his parents. He is aged 26, his estimated birth date is 1885 and his place of birth is given as Vauxhall. He is employed as a Hatter's Labourer.

In the 1901 Census he appears as Henry, aged 16; he is living with his parents and his place of birth is given as Clapham, London. He is employed as a Van Guard.

In the 1891 Census he appears as Harry, aged 6; he is living with his parents and his place of birth is given as Notting Hill.

3) Margaret Norris - born c 1881

To date I have only found Margaret in the 1881 Census. Here she is living with her parents and she is less than a year old. Her place of birth is given as Notting Hill, Latimer Road. Perhaps she is one of the four children who had died by 1911?

4) Edith G - born c 1880

In the 1891 Census she is living with her parents. She is aged 11, her estimated birth date is 1880 and her place of birth given as Notting Hill.

In the 1881 Census she appears as Edith G., aged 1. She is living with her parents and her place of birth is given as Notting Hill, Clarendon Road.

It is highly likely that Edith G was the Edith Gertrude who married George Albert Hinton in the first quarter of 1900 in the district of St Olave, Southwark. In 1901 they are living at 4 Russell Scott Buildings, St Crispins, Bermondsey. Edith's place of birth is given as Notting Hill London and she is aged 21 years, facts which would both seem to confirm the identification.Husband George is aged 25 in this Census, his place of birth is given as Bermondsey and he is employed as a Labourer in a Flour Mill.

5) Albert J - born c 1876

In the 1891 Census he is living with his parents. He is aged 16, his estimated birth date is 1875 and his place of birth is given as Charlton. He is employed as a Carman's Assistant.

In the 1881 Census he appears as Albert J, aged 5 with an estimated date of birth of 1876. He is living with his parents and his place of birth is given as Marston Beech Lane.

It is extremely likely that Albert J Norris is the same person who appears in the 1911 Census as Albert James Norris. Albert is living with his wife Lydia (38 years, born in Dudley, 1873) at 6 Vauban Street, Bermondsey. Albert works as a Labourer in a Saw Mill, and they have a daughter Edith who is aged 14 and a Factory Hand in a Pickle Factory. The same family appears in the 1901 Census living at 164 Long Lane, Bermondsey. Albert is aged 25 years; he is described as a Carman Out of Employment and his place of birth given  as Somersetshire. In the same Census Edith appears as Edith M and Lydia is spelt Lidia. This, I believe, is the Lydia Bellingham who married an Albert James Norris in the first quarter of 1898 in the registration district of St. Saviour Southwark.

6) Frederick J - born c 1874

In the 1891 Census he living with his parents. He is aged 17, his estimated birth date is 1874 and his place of birth is given as Charlton.

In the 1881 Census he appears as Frederick J, aged 7. He is living with his parents and his place of birth is given as Ferry Hill, Somerset.

It is likely that Frederick J was Frederick John Norris and that he married Rebecca Martha Miller who was from Kent in the final quarter of 1894. This was in the registration district of St Saviour Southwark. In the 1911 Census - which someone made quite a mess completing! - we find Frederick (aged 37) and Rebecca living at 17 Dunlop Place, Bermondsey. Frederick is employed as a Waterside Labourer. The couple have been married 17 years and they have 9 children born alive of whom 8 are still alive. Children living with Frederick and Rebecca in 1911 were:

(1) Frederick John Norris - aged 14, born c 1897 in London Bermondsey, employed as a Mill Boy
(2) William Arthur Norris - aged 12, born c 1899 in London Bermondsey
(3) Henry Searle Norris - aged 10, born c 1901 in London Bermondsey
(4) Ernest George Norris - aged 8, born c 1903 in London Bermondsey
(5) Robert James Norris - aged 2, born c 1909 in London Bermondsey
(6) Rebecca Mary Elizabeth Norris - aged 3 weeks, born c 1911 in London Bermondsey

7) Herbert George - born c 1872

Herbert George was my Great Grandfather. In the 1891 Census he is living with his parents. He is aged 19, his estimated birth date is 1872 and his place of birth is given as Charlton. He is employed as a Machine Painter

In the 1881 Census he appears as Herbert G. and is living with his parents, aged 9. His birth place is again given as Charlton

8) Annie - born c 1870

In the 1881 Census she is living with her parents. She is aged 11, her estimated birth date is 1870 and her place of birth is given as Charlton.

In the 1871 Census neither Annie nor her mother are resident with Jacob at the Toll Gate Buckland Dinham, Kilmersdon, Frome. Instead they appear to be found in the home of Eliza's parents, Matthew and Ann Hughes, at Charlton Village Turnpike Toll House, Kilmersdon, Frome. (Note; Eliza appears as Ellen Norris, aged 22, estimated year of birth 1849; Annie appears as Ann Norris, aged 1, estimated year of birth 1870).

To date 8 of Eliza's ten children have been identified, 2 remain. As always, any thoughts or help will be greatly appreciated!

The Trial of Jacob Norris

Jacob Norris was my great, great grandfather. In July 1879 he was in court accused of a violent assault on a woman at Frome ...

What follows is from the Western Daily Press, 26th July 1879; the comments in brackets are my own ...

"At the Frome petty session, on Thursday, Jacob Norris carter, aged 28, was brought up on remand charged with violently assaulting Mrs Targett, on Monday evening, at Marston Back Lane. The case was adjourned on Tuesday, the prosecutrix (victim / complainant - Ed.) being unable to attend in consequence of the severe injuries she had received. Mr W Dunn prosecuted, and Mr MCarthy defended the prisoner. The prosecutrix (i.e. the victim, Mrs Targett - Ed.) said she was 62 years of age and lodged with Mrs Hughes, occupying the first floor. (The) Prisoner (was) married (to) Mrs Hughes daughter (Elisabeth Hughes - Ed.). On Monday evening she was sitting in her room and heard the front door being broken open. Mrs Hughes and her granddaughter came running towards her. Just before she saw the prisoner cross the barton (yard - Ed.). As he came up the stairs he made use of bad language, and said that he would murder her, although she had never given him a misword. They tried to keep him out by putting some boxes against the door, but he got his knee between the door and the post, and hammered her fingers with his fist, and ground her right arm up and down the edge of the door, inflicting some severe scars. She then cried "Murder", and he knocked her in the mouth with his fist. When he got into the room he flung the boxes and furniture about, kicked her in the leg so violently that she had not been able since to put her boot on, and used violent language towards her. She then jumped out of the bedroom window which was eleven feet from the ground. Dr Sproule had attended her, and she had been unable to sit up until that day. In cross examination she denied that her arm was injured through striking at (the) prisoner round the door, and her leg scratched as she descended from the bedroom window. She did not know whether the prisoner's wife was in the house or not. (A strange thing not to know! - Ed). Mrs Hughes and Dennis Drew, neighbours, gave corroborative evidence. Dr Sproule who attended complainent, said her injuries were not very great. For the defence Mr E.J. Russell, builder, for whom the prisoner worked, and William Hillman were called. The former stated that he and (the) prisoner were going to Nunney with a load of timber. When they got to Marston Lane (the) prisoner's wife (Elisabeth Norris nee Hughes - Ed) brought out her two children and their clothes, and put them up into the waggon. He told (the) prisoner he had better go and see his wife, and induce her to take the children. As he was trying to get into the room he saw a woman put her hand round the edge  of the door and try to strike him. He was sure (the) prisoner did not strike anyone. One of the women in the room said (the) prisoner's wife was there. The bench said that they had come to the conclusion that (the) prisoner had used undue violence, and there was no doubt but that his treatment had induced (the) prosecutrix (the victim / complainant, Mrs Targett - Ed) to jump out of the window. The should commit him to prison for two months with hard labour, and at the expiration of that term require him to find sureties for his good behaviour for three months; in default to be further imprisoned for that period".

Perhaps this is the reason (or part of the reason) why the Norris family moved from Somerset to London. In the 1881 census (less than 2 years after these events) Jacob Norris is found living with his family in Lambeth - and these include two children, one in 1880 and one in 1881, who have been both born in Notting Hill! Perhaps Jacob went to prison in London and remained there after his release? Or perhaps the family wanted a fresh start somewhere new? As always, any help or thoughts are greatly appreciated!

The Children of Herbert George Norris and Elizabeth Fanny Darby

Herbert George Norris was my Great Grandfather. On October 21st 1894 he married Elizabeth Fanny Darby at the Church in the parish of St James the Great in the County of Middlesex.

To date, (and this is very much work in progress) it is found that they had the following children:

Elizabeth Lilian Norris - born c 1895 in Lambeth, London
My mum remembers there was an "Aunt Lil".
She appears as Lily Norriss (sic) aged 16 and a General Servant in the 1911 Census and as Eliza Lilian Norris, aged 6, in the 1901 Census.
Eliza Lilian Norris was baptised on February 3rd 1897 at St Peter's Church Vauxhall in the county of London.

George Albert John Norris - born c 1897 in Lambeth, London
He was baptised on 26th January 1898 at St Peter's Church Vauxhall in the County of London.
He appears as George Norriss (sic), aged 14 and an Office Boy, in the 1911 Census and as George Albert John Norris, aged 4, in the 1901 Census

Herbert William Norris - born 20th June 1899 in Bermondsey
This was my grandfather; he was known as William or Bill Norris. He was registered as Herbert William Norris in the Registration District of St Olave, Bermondsey in the the third quarter of 1899. He married my grandmother Lucy H Bristow in the Summer of 1918 in Southwark London. The marriage registration record has his name as William H Norris.
He appears as William Norriss (sic), aged 11 in the 1911 Census, and as William Norris aged 1 in the Census of 1901.

Florence Elizabeth Norris - born 1901
Florence was baptised at All Saints, South Lambeth, in the County of Surrey on September 8th 1901.
My mother remembers Florence as being disabled and living in later life in Peabody Buildings. This may have been housing provided by the charity The Peabody Trust. In the 1911 census there is a Florence Norris (from London and with an estimated birth date of 1902) living at the Victoria Home for Crippled Children in Bournemouth.

Herbert Albert Norris - born 1903 in Lambeth
His birth was registered in the Registration District of Lambeth, London in the 2nd quarter of 1903, and he was baptised on May 10th of that year.
He appears as Albert Norriss, aged 8, in the 1911 Census.
He was known to my mum's family as Albert Norris, but to his own immediate family as Herbert.

Herbert Albert Norris

Cecil Norris - born c 1906
My mum does not think she ever met him, but does remember her own mother describing him as "wearing a camel coat and white scarf and with a silver headed walking stick"
According to the 1911 Census Cecil Norriss (sic) was born in Handsworth and was aged 5 years.( I wonder if Handsworth is an error and Wandsworth meant).
Interestingly, Cecil also appears to be known as Cyril in other parts of the family, though the reason for this is not yet clear.

Gladys Norris - born c 1907
Gladdis Norriss (sic) appears in the 1911 Census as aged 4 years and her birth place is given as Tooteing (sic) Surrey
Nothing else is presently known about her.

Leonard Norris - born c 1910 in Tooting
My mum knew him as "Little Lennie".
In the 1911 Census Leonard Norriss (sic) is said to be 9 months old and his birth place is given as Tooteing (sic) Surrey.

Doris Ivy Norris - born 1912 in Southwark.
I do not have any definite information about Doris Ivy Norris but it is possible that Doris was born on 30th June 1912, that she married a Gordon Williams in 1932 and died in 1983 in Wandsworth, London.

William Norris (left) with Leonard Norris

And now a mystery, courtesy of Arnold Fletcher (from the Australian branch of the Norris family) ... Arnold sent me a copy of a record which shows that, on 2nd August 1899, Herbert George and Elizabeth Fanny baptised a son, Herbert George, at St Luke in the Diocese of London ... what are we to make of this? The date fits to my grandfather Herbert William Norris, but not the name. However, to date I have no baptismal record for my grandfather, so was his name perhaps recorded wrongly? Certainly it can not be the George Albert John Norris who was born c 1897 as a baptismal record (as detailed above) exists for him already. As always any help that anyone can give will be greatly appreciated!

A big thank you to Arnold Fetcher, Shirley Norris, Pearl Norris and Ian Braban

for there help in preparing this material!

Norris Cousins Meet For The First Time!

My maternal grandfather, William Norris, had many brothers and sisters. Most of them, however, do not seem to have kept in touch with each other. My mother, Dorothy, often wondered about the many aunts and uncles that she had occasionally met in her childhood or whom she had only heard of by name. It was, therefore, a great thrill to be able to tell her that I had recently discovered that she had a cousin whom she had never met and whom we would be seeing for the first time the following day!

Shirley Norris is the daughter of Herbert Albert Norris, who was the brother of my mother's father, William. Strangely, Shirley's family only knew their father as Herbert, whilst my mother's family only knew him as Albert; but that they were indeed one and the same person was soon evident from the memories that Shirley and mum were able to share and the respective records that I was able to examine.

Shirley (left) with my mum 

Shirley gave us a very warm welcome to her home and it was a joy to see her and mum exchanging memories and also providing each other with information about different members of the family, some of whom had only been known to one or the other of them. Their meeting reminds us, perhaps, that genealogical research is not just about distant ancestors who have died, it is about living relatives as well ...